Farewell

[Nidge]

Well after 4 years of W210 E240 ownership I am in the process of part exing it for 2003 BMW 330Ci. On the whole my experience was a positive one and in 70,000 miles of ownership the only item I've had to replace is the battery but washing the car each week revealed more and more rust patches appearing on nearly every panel, and recently the car has refused to start when hot on a couple of occasions (I suspect the crank position sensor). On top of that, yesterday the car just cut out on my way to work and refused to start, but after leaving it for 3 or 4 minutes it started perfectly and didn't miss a beat for the rest of the journey.

As I say on the whole I've enjoyed my first experience of Mercedes ownership but the thought of impending spring perch mount rusting through, ball joints popping out, MAFs failing and my bodywork disintegrating around me leave me with little confidence in owning the car for much longer

 

[Nidge]

Forget to add that Mrs Nidge has just picked up her new 2006 model SLK200 so, as a family, we wont be deserting the 3 pointed star for good

 

[television]

Yours must be the shortest leaving and re joining on record, welcome to the forum, Mrs Nidge.

Malcolm

 

[OlafMaxwell]

You were lucky in terms of reliability. Wise move to move on.

 

[hawk20]

You were lucky in terms of reliability. Wise move to move on.

Yes always a dig at Mercedes from Olaf

 

[hawk20]

. As I say on the whole I've enjoyed my first experience of Mercedes ownership but the thought of impending spring perch mount rusting through, ball joints popping out, MAFs failing and my bodywork disintegrating around me leave me with little confidence in owning the car for much longer

Nothing like assuming the worst. Especially after you've had 70,000 miles of virtually trouble free motoring.
What happened to the thirty year rust guarantee? Plenty have claimed on it successfully as a search of threads here and elsewhere will reveal. And every spring perch case I have seen has been put right by Mercedes at no cost to the owners- even when the cars were out of the 3 year warranty period. Here's a recent link:
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=18495

As for BMW I'll try to find and post the thread where consumer research in the States puts them in the ten most unreliable cars you can buy. BTW BMW and Mercedes both started fully galvanising the steel panels on their cars in the same year, 2004, so if you look carefully you will see plenty of rusty Beemers as well.

 

[television]

Funny thing is that there are thousands of people who buy their new MB every year, and they never have a problem, and they don't know that some people do have big problems. they do not keep the cars long enough to notice rust. that's life.

Malcolm

 

[hawk20]

Funny thing is that there are thousands of people who buy their new MB every year, and they never have a problem, and they don't know that some people do have big problems. they do not keep the cars long enough to notice rust. that's life.

Malcolm

With a thirty year rust guarantee and huge evidence in threads here and on other forums that Mercedes live up to the promises, I am merely suggesting that someone with a problem should claim rather than sell. See the link I gave.
BTW most buyers are companies and are usually on three year leases. Nidge has only had his car one year longer.

One of the problems for Mercedes, of course, is that cars get bumps, scratches and the dreaded stone chips. If not dealt with, these will lead to serious rust problems. I've seen some cars that have clearly been allowed to just go to pot. No doubt you have too. But where the rust has genuinely been a manufacturing problem (and no one denies that the E class of the late nineties had many problems in this respect), then all the many threads I've read suggest Merc have been pretty good at putting matters right.

 

[hawk20]

Out of interest went to the Southampton get together of the other UK Merc forum and met RACAL who has a C320 estate. He'd had some rust problems on the tailgate (rear door) around the number plate. Went to his Merc dealer. They contacted Mercedes and within a very short space of time they came back and offered to supply and fit a new rear door and, of course, respray it to match -all for no charge.

 

[Retired]

After 8 years and 105k miles of ownership, 1998 E 240 estate, I too have decided to leave the MB fold. I’ve bough a Discovery 3. Same footprint, seven seats and rides speed bumps better.

The Merc had been reliable with only the MAF as a significant non consumable expense.

So, why change? The main reason is the rust. Yes, MB have been repairing it, doors and new front wings at no cost to me. The paint match on the latest repair (new wings) isn’t that great and I just can’t be bothered to go and argue the case for rectification. The rear wheel arches are also starting to show signs of corrosion. Used to be proud of the car, not so anymore.

Why not a new MB? Test drove E320CDI and liked it, suppose I wanted a change and this was it bit too similar to the old car. Also a bit concerned that the interior whilst of reasonable quality from a luxury standpoint might endure the depravations of a growing family that well. ML? Don’t really like the styling and only five seats.

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

The rust warrantee really isn't worth squat. The big problem, as pointed out, is stone chips. Given that the paint thickness on MB's can be measured in microns you only need to get a fly walk across the bonnet and you need a re-spray. My car in a 2003 C240 and it is already rusting in a few places where there have been stone chips. For a car of this price (with all the bits about £30k new) it's a disgrace. I don't want ti re-sprayed because of A) colour match problems (who want's a multi-toned car) and b) cost. I have ben quoted over £300 to repear a 4mm rust spot in the windscreen pillar, which will probably just return within a couple of months when it gets chipped again. Those of us that drive more than a few miles a year get stone chips on a regular basis.

I'm not interested in hearing that Beemer's rust more (incidentally not true, I've owned both and the MB rusts far worse) as I don't currently own one. This is an MB site so we should talk about MB's and whatever people here may think they do rust alarmingly quickly, even new ones.

I have had the C240 for about 4 months now and so far these are my observeations:

Good points:
1) Snob Value (see below)
2) Lovely engine
3) Looks Great
4) excellent safety features (5 star Euro Encap)


Bad points:
1) snob value (yes I know, but it depends upon your point of view).
2) really thin paint
3) Prone to rust.
4) Binary Auto-Box (either on or off - very "abrupt" gear changes a lot of the time).
5) Build quality. The centre-console creaks all the time like an old transit and can be shifted the best part of an inch left/right if you push it. The plastic cover on the vanity mirror looks like some cheap chinese toy with excess plastic all over it. The carpet in the boot doesn't fit properly. Rear-view mirror vibrates noisily. Aircon vent by foot break keeps falling off etc, etc.
6) Rediculous running costs
7) Rude dealers
8) fairly rough and noisy ride (although it is an Avantgarde and does have sports suspension so I guess it can be forgiven, holds the road well though).

At the moment I would give my first Benz about 5/10. It's not a really bad car, just not what I expected. It would be difficult to say I set my expectations too high given what an asperational car an MB is supposed to be. I noticed in a recent roadtest in "what car" they drove an R-class against the disco (I think) a VW and a Volvo and they said the MB "could not match the build quality of the other cars". Given the comments about the improved build quality of the newer MB's I think that the fact that it couldn't match the build quality of a Land Rover is a bit of a shocker. The R-Class came 3rd out of 4 overall. And I think that about sums up my experience of MB so far. I think if you spend £70-80k + you probably get a decent car. Much less than that (which probably includes most of us) and what you get is unlikely to meet you expectations.

I'm already thinking about replacing mine but will keep it until Summer next year. Shame really, but it's just not the car I expected it to be.

 

[hawk20]

The rust warrantee really isn't worth squat. The big problem, as pointed out, is stone chips. Given that the paint thickness on MB's can be measured in microns you only need to get a fly walk across the bonnet and you need a re-spray. My car in a 2003 C240 and it is already rusting in a few places where there have been stone chips. For a car of this price (with all the bits about £30k new) it's a disgrace.

That is not fair. First, read the case of RACAL I mentioned above and who I talked to only yesterday. Read the Link I gave where Merc did a complete respray. http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/sh...ad.php?t=18495

Loads of other threads testify to the worth of the 30 year guarantee.

Secondly, you are saying the problem is stone chips. I agree. We need to tell councils to stop putting giant bullets on the road for people to fire at us and do a proper resurface.

With stone chips you have to touch them up, then they don't rust. Leave them and they will rust ON ANY MAKE OF CAR. If you can't or don't want to do it yourself use Chips Away, Dentmaster, Smart Repair or any of the many firms specialising in this work. I sympathise with the problem. I used to do 30,000 to 40,000 miles per year, for many years.

BTW since 2004 all Mercs are fully galvanised - and Beemers.

There are lots of immaculate C class cars around so the problem is not general as you suggest.

Secondly, on Car reviews. Take them all with a pinch of salt. What wear tests did they do to establish 'quality'? None. They just look at the materials and form a purely personal and subjective impression. The R class was rated top large estate by the Sunday Times and third by someone else. Big deal. It happens. You like Pepsi. I like Coke.

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

Secondly, you are saying the problem is stone chips. I agree. We need to tell councils to stop putting giant bullets on the road for people to fire at us and do a proper resurface.

With stone chips you have to touch them up, then they don't rust. Leave them and they will rust ON ANY MAKE OF CAR. If you can't or don't want to do it yourself use Chips Away, Dentmaster, Smart Repair or any of the many firms specialising in this work. I sympathise with the problem. I used to do 30,000 to 40,000 miles per year, for many years.
.

I 100% agree with the comments about the stones. Is there a world wide shortage of steam rollers? They used to put down tarmac now they just throw down a ton of gravel and expect you to bed it in. Of course the 20 ton truck going the other way ALWAYS slows down to 10mph as he goes past. Mind you, I think most of my stone chips come from the back of trucks who never seem to clear their tyres out.

As for the comment about all cars rusting from stone chips I completely disagree. My Audi A6 had some pretty major stone chips over the 160k miles that I owned it, and I never touched any of them up and I NEVER had even the slightest spot of rust. The only new (by which I mean up to 5 years old) cars I see on the road with rust are MB's.

 

[television]

MB's do stone chip easily, and the whole paint process is quite thin. One thing here is that we tend to compare our cars with the previous model that we had, the snag with this is that the whole paint process is changing, on a year by year basis through EU regs, 2005 should see improvements. Like with all water based products, the adhesion is the biggest culprit. When possible I keep a good gap with the car in front to avoid this, but I am not sure even with this line of thought as stones can fly a long way.

I keep on say that I will do a thread on touching up (so simple) but it it hard to take photo's, I will have one more try.

Malcolm

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

Go for it TV. Tips may be handy.

I had an Autoglass man replace the windscreen on the A6 once (actually about 5 times. For some reason the Audi was really suseptable to chiped windscreens) and he said about the water based paints being really easy to scratch. Not on MB's but on new cars generally, although not on the Audi apparently.

 

[television]

Go for it TV. Tips may be handy.

I had an Autoglass man replace the windscreen on the A6 once (actually about 5 times. For some reason the Audi was really suseptable to chiped windscreens) and he said about the water based paints being really easy to scratch. Not on MB's but on new cars generally, although not on the Audi apparently.

If the cars were treated with an etch primer, things would be better, any form of galvernizing is not good for painting, if it is too thin it comes off, if it is too thick it also comes off, If it is hard, it will also come off, and with too soft you would rub it all away.

Do what I do, never drive the car, still looks like new

Malcolm

 

[hawk20]

MB's do stone chip easily, and the whole paint process is quite thin. One thing here is that we tend to compare our cars with the previous model that we had, the snag with this is that the whole paint process is changing, on a year by year basis through EU regs, 2005 should see improvements. Like with all water based products, the adhesion is the biggest culprit. When possible I keep a good gap with the car in front to avoid this, but I am not sure even with this line of thought as stones can fly a long way.

I keep on say that I will do a thread on touching up (so simple) but it it hard to take photo's, I will have one more try.

Malcolm

I really wish you would do that. Some bastard through an egg and it has made a series of quite deep scratches -a bit like a crow's foot. Whole thing is only the size of a 2p piece but unsightly on the bonnet. Read somewhere that with the new water-based touch-up the answer is to apply the brilliant silver metallic, then T cut it flat, then coat with the clear lacquer. mentioned this at the Southampton Get Together and the general view was this was not a good way. So I await your thread with interest.

 

[television]

I really wish you would do that. Some bastard through an egg and it has made a series of quite deep scratches -a bit like a crow's foot. Whole thing is only the size of a 2p piece but unsightly on the bonnet. Read somewhere that with the new water-based touch-up the answer is to apply the brilliant silver metallic, then T cut it flat, then coat with the clear lacquer. mentioned this at the Southampton Get Together and the general view was this was not a good way. So I await your thread with interest.

You cant respray a patch with aerosols, Never put a clear coat on silver, it is cellulose based and will look very dark compaired to the two pack original top coat. It will just sit there like a blob. It can be done with a very high powered thiners to disolve the surounding area, but by the time you have done that it would be quicker to respray the whole panel, it is only ever done on damage that because of the position of the damge it would mean respraying the whole side, there are simple ways that mask the damage in most lights and angles, I will use the Volvo, though saying that,the paint sticks better on that than the MB.

Malcolm

 

[benzo]

I will use the Volvo, though saying that,the paint sticks better on that than the MB.

Malcolm

Not sure about that, have an S60 and the paint chips off a lot on the door edges. They weren't caused by opening carelessly as the parts with chips don't make contact. C Class meanwhile -no chips, a few scratches though.