Fire Extinguishers

[philharve]

Hi All

Are fire extinguisgers a standard item for most Mercedes-Benz models and, if so, where are they usually located/fitted?

Can they be obtained at MB dealers or is it better (and cheaper) to purchase them from specialist suppliers?

REGARDS Phil

 

[television]

they are always fitted to the front of the drivers seat.
If you must have one then buy a cheap one and replace it every year.

Malcolm

 

[DAD190E1990]

Having been a Recovery Mechanic i can say with some authority that fire extinguishers in cars are a very good idea. I have been to a few car fires and found the owner with his hands supporting his head, mindlessly repeating the same line over and over again.
"All i could do was watch it burn and now it's destroyed!".
I just can't help thinking that i would have wanted to at least try to put it out before too much damage occured. I would still call at least the police and i do not profess to be a fire fighter but a well aimed blast under the bonnet or wherever the main source is, can often take all the drama away if you get to it quick enough and negates the need for a much needed fire appliance to waste it's potential on a car fire. I would say carry the 1Kg mini affair at the fronnt of the drivers seat and also invest in a 4 or 5 Kg bottle and mount the carrying brackets into the side of the boot interior trim, they then clamp into place and don't fly around. If you think it sounds drastic, stand anywhere near a burning car and watch the owners face. At this point i'm sure he would pay £35 or so for the situation to have been different. That's drastic.

 

[tom7035]

Fire extinguisher or not?

Conflicting opinions by forum members of the value of a car fire extinguisher and whether do you carry powder or foam? I personally carry a largish one of each fixed in the boot, but some opinions here;
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=14605&highlight=fire+extinguisher

 

[3146bj]

Whether you carry an extinguisher or not is based on the answers to two questions: if your car catches fire and you had an extinguisher would you:1) know what to do? and 2) knowing what to do, be prepared to risk injury to do it.

Having a go at a car fire is not just a bit of fun and if you don't know what you are doing it can be ****** dangerous. A 1kg dry chemical extinguisher runs for 5-8 seconds. Not long if the fire is fully developed and you've taken a couple of seconds to work out where the base of the fire is and aim properly.

As for foam or dry chemical powder, DCP every time. If you have a way of getting a a Halon (CFC now banned under the Montreal Convention except for specific uses such as in aircraft) legally, go for it as it is 1000% better than anything else for a car fire. Foam is useless except on a contained pool of fuel.

If you decide to go for it, buy at least a 2kg dry chemical powder extinguisher and mount it where you can get it easily AFTER you have got out of the car.
Personally, I'd only bother if going into remote areas with no fire brigades. Otherwise, when the car catches fire make two calls - one to the brigade and one to your insurance company. But, then again, how many cars catch fire?

 

[television]

I personally carry a largish one of each fixed in the boot, but some opinions here;
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=14605&highlight=fire+extinguisher[/QUOTE]

If you had a fire in the boot, there is no way that you could open the boot to get it, that's why it should be to hand, in front of the drivers seat, the standard factory possition.

Malcolm

 

[tom7035]

I personally carry a largish one of each fixed in the boot, but some opinions here;
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=14605&highlight=fire+extinguisher

If you had a fire in the boot, there is no way that you could open the boot to get it, that's why it should be to hand, in front of the drivers seat, the standard factory possition.

Malcolm[/QUOTE]

I think the important point here Malcolm is that I would be out of the vehicle first, THEN considering using the extinguisher. Although I must say in the many years I investigated and dealt with road accidents and occurrences I only came across a boot fire twice as I recall and both were caused by a rear-end collision, and in neither case would a car extinguisher have made the slightest difference.

 

[SLinKyjoe]

the question that needs answering before any further debate onn this subject is why you feel you want one? they are not supplied as standard in the UK as we dont require one. in some countries they do! thats the only reason they are supplied as standard!

so once we have your reasons as to why you need one we can then offer advice about fire extinguishers, their percieved benenfits and their issues so you can make a fully informed decision about whether you want one or not.

but anything less than 1kg is a waste of money so if you go to hellfrauds dont pick up the small ones.

I can supply exinguishes at trade prices. the thing to remember about extinguishers is that they need checking regular. some are sealed and have a life of up to 6 years and are then thrown away. other need to be checked yearly by competant persons....and also weekly by yourself.

but if you choose to have one, if it looks like it may have lost its charge, you will need to replace it with another while you get the first one sorted..so that means you need 2 doesnt it?

and then, do you buy Powder, Carbon Dioxide or Foam. As said above, BCF or Halon extinguihser put out the fire quickest, but they are banned and also, like powders, they offer not post discharge fire control. and you cant use them inside the car if you are in the car, the chlorine gas they give tends to suffocate you!


so once you ask why do you want them, i can offer you some advice over how to choose one.

 

[PINBALL]

Very informative Slinky,

So, do you carry one, or do you feel the need for them is unnecesary,
Thanks,
Keith.

 

[philharve]

Hi All

Opinions as to whether or not to carry a fire extinguisher appear to be sharply divided throughout the MBOA membership.

My original posting was prompted by two things. Firstly, there is a cavity below the driver's seat of my car to take a fair sized extinguisher. My guess is that one was never fitted. Secondly, I have only ever witnessed three car fires in about 45yrs. They are rare, even in a collision. This begs the question as to whether it is worth carrying one.

The first fire I witnessed was as a small boy. I was terrified. A car in a park suddenly ignited when the owner tried to start it. There were many cars in the park. My father carried a fire extinguisher in the family car and he put the engine fire out and gained vital minutes until the Fire Brigade arrived. They had nothing to do. My father was a hero, the car was saved, it's owner was very grateful. The fire could have spread to other vehicles.

The second fire was to our own car parked in our garage. How it started we shall never know (had he been smoking?) but it ignited in the passenger compartment. Once again my father put a small fire extinguisher (aerosol type) to good use. He eventually appeared from the car, blackened and his clothes singed. That was a close one.

The third fire was to a neighbours car a few years ago. It was parked about twenty yards from our house. It was dark. We never knew how it started (a fuel leak and a hot engine?) but the Fire Brigade put it out quite some time later. It was a right-off. If I carried a fire extinguisher of the correct type, should I have got involved with this vehicle fire? Probably not but I know what to do, I've been trained. I watched the Fire Brigade spray foam from beneath the car with bonnet in place. Success. Could I have saved the car? Possibly.

Quick action and a fire extinguisher can save lives and property, if not you own.

I have fire extinguishers in the home and a fire blanket in the kitchen but nothing for the car. I have written to a number of fire fighting specialists for advice.

REGARDS Phil

 

[SLinKyjoe]

its not as easy as it sounds......

any fire extinguisher company selling them will advise to buy, as they need to sell. the fire and rescue service will tell you which type they would recommend and size, but they will also tell you not to involove yourself in fire fighting unless you are trained. and this means regular training, and not. I have used one once 20years ago. and they will also tell you that you all get out of the car before you attempt the fight any fire, and that you should not risk yourself. and you must always call the fire service......

Bear in mind thi. no matter how small the fire is, you cannot use the car until the source of the fire has been determined and fixed.

It is very UNLIKELY your car will have a fire. To suceesfully extinguish a fire in the car you will need the right type of extinguisher and you will need to use it correctly. Halfords sell FOAM extingushers....which are 32b rated. this means they can tackle a liquid fire 34ltres big.....how many cars have a fuel tank of 34ltres....and what about the brake fluid amounts? plus i dont know of any cars that have the fuel tank in the engine compartment! so you thenh have to get access to the fire....and a FOAM extinguisher will be no use for anything behind the dashboard.

powder is a better option but it does not leave a fire supression blanket on fuel so if you have a fuel leak.....you are not going to keep the fire out.....

Carbon Dioxide comes out as a gas and will be better on the dashboard area of the car....but could well be in effective under the bonnet.

and you cant supply BCF or BTM for the general public...so thats out too.


MB will supply you an extinguisher at great cost that fits the space....other companies will supply you ones that are cheaper and may fit the space....

I have 2 cars and not one has an extinguisher in. i dont put one in when i travel either....i would locate one if i was going to be doing some welding perhaps.....or laying tarmac......maybes paint stipping on wood with a gas stripper.....

you must remember this and i cannot stress this enough. if you are very unlucky enough to have a fire in your vehicle...you must get out, get everyone out and get the fire service out.....then and only then, if you have an extinguisher of a suitable type, have knowlegde of how to apply the media from it, and are not in any way at risk, then you may attempt the tackle the fire.....

unleaded petrol breaksdown the from in AFFF extinguishers so it may relight. and the HSE require you to wear fire protective clothing when tackling a fire to prevent you from getting brunt from a known risk..by providing an extinguisher you have assessed the risk and provided the equipement for it but not the provision of training and clothing..further more you will need to wear respiratory protective equipment suitable for this task. car fires give off toxic fumes which is why you see fire fighters wearing breathing apparatus when tackling car fires....


prevention, good maintenance and taking care is far more valuable. short cuts and risk taking end in disaster.

but for your peace of mind......if you tackle a fire before getting everyone to safety, using the wrong equipment, and not getting thr fire service out first....may mean you end up a victim of your own decisons and rely on someone else to get the help for you...in fact someone professionally trained to help are now needed to help you and the people you failed to help in the first place......

and to those with worse case in mind who say, you are trapped in the car, it catches fire, you cant get out but can reach the exinguisher and its the right type.......i ask them this...when did you last have it serviced....coz now it has to work first time.....and you have had it how many years?


The short answer....pointless. save your money.

 

[3146bj]

Good advice from SLinKyjoe. Particularly about the experts selling you what they need to sell, not what you need.

I carried an extinguisher in a company car for 20 years and never used it or was in a position where it was needed and that was in an occupation where fire was a relatively high risk.

I carry a DCP (2.3kg) one now in the Disco, but only because it is used in areas without fire service coverage & I had the extinguisher. It's not uncommon for 4WD's in long grass or spinifex country in Oz to accumulate grass or spinifex around the exhaust or brakes, catch fire and burn out - 7-800km from a fire service. An extinguisher is no help in that case as you need heaps of water - about the only time a water extinguisher is useful in a car fire!

From experience, foam is useless for a car and CO2 is heavy for its capacity.

As the man says, in 99.9999% of cases, save your money and a lot of worry that you picked the right one.

 

[tom7035]

Some very knowledgeable and intelligent observations, but to quote the oft-used phrase - "but you never know ................... "

 

[SLinKyjoe]

"but you never know ................... "

that's what a dynamic risk assesment if for! so our boss tells us!

for those wanting to know what one is...a risk assesement is when you asses a risk, determine its likley safety shortfalls, and work out what should be done to prevent then being a problem to anyone confronted with the risk, or provide suitable advice and information to reduce the element of danger within the aforementioned risk.

a dynamic one is one you do at the risk itself when you are confronted with the risk and do not have the abilty to either run away, or consult adivice from other areas...in other words, imediatley before you take any action you consider what that action would be and how it would effect the risk....then you run away, sorry, carry out the actions you need to do to whatever it is that needs doing to reduce any risk to those doing it.


Such as a car fire. You can determine the risk involved and all the saftey needs and preventions needed to minimise the risk to yourself, then add a fire extinguisher and add an element of danger to your risk assesement. ie, having the ability to fight the fire which is increasing the risk to yourself.

or you can run away.....


but i prefer to know that suitable risk assesments and fire prevention measures have taken place where they built the car..they cannot afford not to....and as such feel safe in the car and on the roads......

but peace of mind is different to all.


and as you quite rightly say..."You never know!"

 

[philharve]

Hi All

I received a 'phone call earlier today from a fire extinguisher company in response to an inquiry I made about extinguishers for cars. They wanted to know if I had received the information pack they sent me. I had, but I haven't found time to review its contents.

I used the opportunity to inquire about legislation concerning fire extinguishers for private vehicles both in the UK and across the Channel. I mentioned I owned a Mercedes.

I was informed that legislation is slowly changing in favour of private vehicles in the UK being required to carry fire extinguishers as on the Continent. Many car makers are pre-empting the change in legislation by designing their vehicles with this requirement in mind.

The two favourite locations for fire extinguishers being under seats or in the boot. Vauxhall is an example. They are equipping new models with mounting points for the attachment of fire extinguisher brackets up to 2.3litre capacity.

Some commercial, passenger-carrying vehicles, e.g. taxis, are required to carry fire extinguishers. Furthmore, they must be tested annually by a registered tester. However, due to a loophole in the Law, there is no requirement to register a particular fire extinguisher with a particular taxi. Consequently, when a taxi undergoes an MOT it's not unusual for the owner to have acquired an extinguisher from another source specifically for the test after which it is returned to its original owner. This is a very common practice, I was informed. A bit like borrowing spare tyres.

In future the Law will require fire extinguishers to be tagged, stating its age, when it was last tested, who the owner is and the registration of the vehicle to which it is fitted. It will be an offence to interfer with the tags.

It therefore seems highly likely that private cars will also be required to carry extinguishers and that they be checked as part of the MOT test. A defective spare is an MOT failure as will be a nonexistent or unserviceable fire extinguisher.

The recommended fire extinguisher for a car, according to my source, is 2kg power extinguisher with manometer/pressure gauge. The recommended service interval is 1 yr.

REGARDS Phil

 

[Ian Brown]

Hi All

A defective spare is an MOT failure

Consequently, when a taxi undergoes an MOT it's not unusual for the owner to have acquired an extinguisher from another source specifically for the test after which it is returned to its original owner. This is a very common practice, I was informed. A bit like borrowing spare tyres.



REGARDS Phil

The spare wheel and tyre is not an MOT failure, If the tyre is worn below the legal limit it is only an advisory issue where an orange coloured certificate is also given along with the pass certificate.

As for the Taxi without a fire extinguisher if they are stoped by the taxi enforcement there badge is removed and the taxi has to sit another taxi test

 

[philharve]

Hi Ian

If the carrying of fire extinguishers become mandatory in the UK then maybe another kind of coloured certificate will be attached to an MOT certicate if the extingisher fails to meet certain basic requirements.

If taxi enforcement can remove the owner's badge and require him/her to resit a taxi test then I wonder how long it will be before the police are required to perform spot checks on fire extinguishers in private cars. If ever.

I wonder how enforcement is managed on the Continent? I assume it is done.

REFARDS Phil

 

[Myros]

having had my beetle catch fire 26 years ago

and having to put it out with the railway station extingusher, I've been toting an extinguisher around in every one of my cars since. I even bought the MB original to fit into the empty bracket of our SL, only to find it is the same shape and make as the Gloria model I bought at Lidl for a tenth of the cost to stand in the kitchen. Carry an extinguisher and pray you never have to use it on yourself or anyone else, just as I do with first aid kits ( also a standard fit on an MB)

 

[philharve]

Hi Myros

I recently puchased a 2kg, powder 'GLORIA' fire extinguisher for under GBP16.00. It's brand new, comes with two types of fitting kit and sports a gauge. How much did you pay for yours? I imagine a MB-sourced extinguisher is probably a re-badged GLORIA, or equivalent, and costs a great deal more. I subscribe to the opinion that life-saving equipment should be available at the lowest cost possible and therefore available to a wider cross section of the general public.

Like you my choice to carry a fire extinguisher was primarily motivated by an event that occured long ago and as a very frightened child it made a deep impression.

I have been trained to put out various types of fire and having actually 'done it' and successfully controlled a fire. I now have the confidence to attempt it in a real situation. The tricky bit is judging whether your attempt is likely to be successful. Over-confidence can cost lives. It's a delicate balance which is why I believe fire training is important.

Like SLinKyjoe I will put 'people before property' but there may an occasion in which a fire extinguisher could provide a few extra vital seconds whilst a rescue takes place. For example, preventing a car fire from spreading thereby giving its occupants more time to escape from what may be a locked vehicle.

I have never seen a person burned alive and I hope I never will. If such a situation presented itself, I think I would 'have a go', but if life was obviously extinct I would not risk my own life too.

I still believe GP16.00 is not a lot if it has the potential to save lives.

I am now trying to decide whether I carry it under the driver's seat or in the boot. If my car is on fire the boot may not open making 'in-car' carrying the only option.

REGARDS Phil

 

[Myros]

Phil, I think it cost me £9.99

and is the exact spit and image of the MB original I bought on e-bay. 2kg dry powder, and has the gauge as well. They sell them periodically through the year. Next time up I'll buy another and install it MB style in the C class on my seat, rather than having one in the boot as I do now.