Flattened battery, keys will not open doors/tailgate manually

[hannay]

1996 E200 S124; 228K

I am retired (another word for finding new ways of having fun), however the "dabbling" that I still do as a consultant in the same field seems to keep me busier than before!

I travel overseas on occasion for projects/clients outside the UK, usually for just a week or so but occasionally longer ... and this is where I went wrong recently, for the first time but I suppose it had to happen eventually.

I have two S124's (ok, I just like them ... though I might be thinking of selling one but that's got nothing to do with this!) and they are routinely connected to a ctek anyway but especially when I am going to be away for a week or two .. splendid devices, have always used them and they do a great job.

I have just had two clients/projects almost back-to-back, and as a result have been away for almost three months apart from a week or so inbetween which was pretty busy with follow-on work itself ... but I had no worries about the cars, and even used one for a couple of trips and a run to London while back.

However ....

I have now discovered that depite thinking I had checked that both cteks were switched on when first leaving, I must have forgotten and in fact one wasn't. And of course when driving to London etc inbetween I chose the "good" one so didn't notice that the other was out of energy!

So then, the 200 now has a totally discharged battery but my problem right now is that the keys won't open passenger door or tailgate manually so that I can deal with it. I have always been sure to operate the locks manually at intervals just to make sure that all is in order for when it might be useful, and there has been no issue with them functioning just fine.

Now, however, I can insert the keys very cleanly and smoothly as always, but on trying to turn them there is no movement. I do not want to try turning too hard for obvious reasons, however that shouldn't be necessary anyway.

So I am wondering firstly whether there is simply a mechanical issue within the lock mechanism that can be overcome by lubrication, vibration or the ultra-technical technique of wiggling the key - which I seem not yet to have completely mastered - or whether there could be more to it than that and if I could restore power somehow it would "clear" something that is inhibiting manual operation anyway ... though paradoxically if I could do that I wouldn't actually need the manual operation ... can't really see this latter however, but I have learned never to say never ...

So can anyone offer clarification, and perhaps suggestions on how to restore manual operation if it seems that the lock mechanism(s!) are indeed *only* stiff? It would be very much appreciated.

I only have internet accesss for the first couple of morning-hours and then from early-evening onward just now because of those *fun* work commitments, but will check and respond then.

Thanks!

 

[eihtur]

These locks can become incredibly difficult if not exercised regularly. But you say you have, so that shouldn't be the problem. Now...don't get annoyed...you are sure you are using the correct key?

 

[television]

Spray some PTFE into the lock, and if you have something that vibrates, hold it on the key and this should make the levers drop to fit the profile of the key, it may take few applications. You can charge the battery by joining the charger to the large terminal on the starter, but that means getting under the car

 

[hannay]

These locks can become incredibly difficult if not exercised regularly. But you say you have, so that shouldn't be the problem. Now...don't get annoyed...you are sure you are using the correct key?

Just managed to use a computer at the client's office before disappearing for the afternoon ...

Lol not annoyed in the slightest, that's the second thing I thought of - the first thing was all the complicated and time-consuming stuff without considering the human element and the simplicity of the possible actual straightforward solution!

Sadly, yes I was using the correct key ... however I am sure you will believe me when I add that even knowing there were incorrect keys also hanging up I tried them nevertheless!!!

Thanks anyway.

 

[hannay]

Spray some PTFE into the lock, and if you have something that vibrates, hold it on the key and this should make the levers drop to fit the profile of the key, it may take few applications. You can charge the battery by joining the charger to the large terminal on the starter, but that means getting under the car

Thank you Malcolm ... That's a dry aerosol or puffer spray, yes? I wouldn't wish to use a wet spray, guaranteed to start a saga of clogging and worse.

I don't have that on my shelf, can't think I have ever had a use for it - until now! Is it something you pick up on the rack at a motor factor or Halfords perhaps? Plumbers merchant maybe even?

I love the thought of charging the battery much more however!!!

Would you know whether the starter is physically reachable from underneath without the car being raised, if I can circumvent the undertray? ... I have just looked under the bonnet of the 220 and it is difficult to judge.

I have wriggled under the front on the ground at times such as when needing to undo the bumper brackets and inboard bolts to fit a new one a while back, and once underneath the clearance surprised me - I can position arms and reach-around to some extent, and visualising what I am feeling shouldn't be a problem as long as there's sufficient access ... I am not a big chap so maybe ...

And if so, attach the +ve of the ctek to the large terminal on the starter, and the -ve to a suitable earth? That would be so good if it was possible!

I'd already wondered about just charging the battery, had gone as far as trying to hook the bonnet release somehow ... no joy there.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Dec]

Use WD40 or Penetrating oil if you want a fighting chance of freeing up a stuck lock. PTFE is not the best thing to use for this problem.

It was possible for me to “pick” the bonnet lock on my old W202, it might work for you too? See… http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=41769

Dec

 

[television]

Its some times possible through the nearside wheel arch liner,to get to the starter, I have forgotten now on the 124,,someone may know

 

[hannay]

Use WD40 or Penetrating oil if you want a fighting chance of freeing up a stuck lock. PTFE is not the best thing to use for this problem.

It was possible for me to “pick” the bonnet lock on my old W202, it might work for you too? See… http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=41769

Dec

I have just got back mid-eve and found your suggestion, thanks. Your earlier thread on the ways and means of popping the catch is an excellent resource, and I hope you have been keeping the medal polished!

I've taken a very quick look at the 220 - the one that doesn't have the problem - before taking my coat off lol, and it appears that the 124 and 202 series cars differ in some regards in their approach to latching, but the principle no doubt can be adapted to suit.

From squinting through the 200's grille in fading light I can see some clear differences even between that one's mountings etc and the 220's despite there being just one month between them in age difference.

Nevertheless, given the fact that in them all a cable retracts a catch that should with care and a suitable tool be extenally accessible, I would hope that it might be possible to spring it open with some trying ... having a freely operating car right alongside as a guide is a bonus

Thanks so much for this.

 

[hannay]

Its some times possible through the nearside wheel arch liner,to get to the starter, I have forgotten now on the 124,,someone may know

That would be excellent, I will explore alongside exploring Dec's catch-popping approach.

So then, +ve to motor terminal, -ve to convenient earth?

And I will be looking at the manual operation anyway as I am disappointed that keeping that usable has not proveded a rescue on this occasion anyway! I am keen to free-up the lock mechanisms - pass door and tailgate - if they are now stiff regardless of regular manual use.

 

[Dec]

The passenger door should be the easier of the two, put the straw right inside the lock key hole and flood it frequently.

Dec

 

[wireman]

I doubt you can get the bonnet up without doing something an injury, looking at mine there is no immediate access to the latch from thru the grille.
So lift the car and remove the encapsulation panel, the starter is on the left hand side and you can get to the fat terminal to connect a charger.

As to your stuck locks, they can be dismantled and cleaned, the trouble is the door locks can't be removed intact without being able to turn them, so a penetrating oil or the like is the most likely way of getting them to move and once you have done this take out the locks and get them into bits and clean out the muck. The sticking is likely to be caused by corrosion products of zinc/aluminium alloy used for the barrel body and brass/bronze used for the tumblers.
To remove the lock there is and allen bolt behind a plug in the doors frame which screws into the side of the lock button, release it a good few turns and the lock will be loose in the handle/door, then using the key turn it towards unlock about 60 degrees and pull out the complete button assembly. a roll pin 1.5mm secures the lock to the operating shaft remove it and the barrel will come out of the lock body, DO NOT remove the key yet.
Have a go at cleaning the gunge of oil and oxide out of the body, barrel and tumbler slots, again keep the key in.
Rinse in your favourite oil solvent, white spirit/lighter fuel etc and dry it off.
Loosely selotape round the barrel or just hold the tumblers in between a finger and thumb and pull the key, watch out here the tumbler springs might try to eject one or two of their tumblers which must not be mixed up if you want the lock to respond to your key, the tumblers nearest the key hole are split making it very fiddly to assemble but very secure against picking. When the key is pulled all the tumblers should try to move outwards, any that don't need more attention.
The bores in which the tumbler springs fit will almost certainly be full of the proverbial and if so remove one tumbler at a time, replace the key so that all the other tumblers can't escape and extract the spring with a straightened out paper clip, "peg out" the hole with a whittled down match stick. The springs are tiny about 6mm long and 1.3 diameter, you might just loose one so do the job in a box or washing up bowl. If you loose one irrecoverably then don't put that tumbler back in.
While each tumbler is out you might choose to burnish up its flat faces to remove any grotty film, and do the same to the slot it occupies.

The tailgate lock is one I've never taken to bits, the saloon boot lock requires again to be operable by key to dismantle it in a manner similar to the door locks, it is buried in the lock/latch assembly which needs removal in its entirety to extract the barrel. I suspect the tailgate latch will be of a similar form.
A pin or circlip will retain the barrel in the body.

Good luck if you try it, a new lock set is not the cheapest of things to have to buy.

Graphite flake is an ideal lock lubricant, if you can get hold of some.

I whilst being prepared to use it occasionally, I find a WD40 repairs abhorrent, the stuff given time sets and goes sticky which is not a good thing in a lock. I was told today that the US paralympic volley ball team have been suspended after being tested positive for WD40.

 

[hannay]

I doubt you can get the bonnet up without ..... suspended after being tested positive for WD40.

Thank you for such very comprehensive advice! All noted and I'll be sure to follow very closely when the time comes!!

 

[television]

I whilst being prepared to use it occasionally, I find a WD40 repairs abhorrent, the stuff given time sets and goes sticky which is not a good thing in a lock. I was told today that the US paralympic volley ball team have been suspended after being tested positive for WD40.

This is what I try and get across here, that stuff reminds me of 1850 doctor cooper fix all medicine, yes it dries sticky and gooey. Next that firm that make the stuff will invent a paint with a built in stripper

Thank you for your post