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Formula Wanted

Discussion in 'Motoring Related Discussion' started by Frontstep, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Has anyone ever come across a mathematical formula for working out the cumulative costs involved for a no fault accident Insurance premium increase over say 5 years.

    I am tidying up the youths accident debacle with his Insurance company and wish to include all costs relating to the accident mainly because I am annoyed at the way they tried to treat him.

    There is also the issue of a renewal coming through before the claim was settled leading to a higher premium because no NCB discount was applied.

    The youths Insurance Company are "looking into it" after some protracted discussions today as to whether they will return some of the higher premium charged.
     
  2. fabes

    fabes Senior Member

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    Sadly not as the base premium is, each year rebased dependent on car, car age, market experience of that car, parts costs, driver age, experience, post code experience, wider market losses (or profits)

    I can go on but a no stage can you more than discuss in broad terms, premiums and what they might have been.

    No value in going into more detail than that. Simple ncd based on generic numbers is best use of your time.
     
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  3. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    There would be an "open secret" in the industry of the average percentage they would apply to an a no fault accident that could then be calculated crudely that way.

    But AIUI you cannot claim for the higher costs - the risk model states that those who have no fault accident are more likely to have an accident in the future - so your son isn't paying a higher premium because of the accident, but because he has now been "unveiled" as a higher risk profile.

    Now obviously it's not "always" the case that a non fault accident could have been perceived, and may well not be in your son's case, though watching dash cam footage etc most non fault incidents I see could be avoided by simple unfashionable things like slowing down even if you have right of way when hazards appear so I can understand why insurance companies do add a risk premium on those who claim, even though as with all insurance it's a statistics game so not always fair.

    Furthermore, some insurers, particularly if you phone up do ignore a no fault accident as a one off, it's generally two that would change the premium significantly so even if you could question the industry models I doubt you could prove they were chargign you more anyway...

    I found out about the "two strikes" from my dad - word of warning if your son gets a chip on windscreen - my dad had had a car broken into so claimed some paintwork glass etc. As this claim was under 1k the premium was unaffected. He then gets the tiniest chip in wndscreen, believed all the autoglass nonsense "the glass could shatter and kill you at any time, we will replace and it won't affect your NCB, etc". And it didnt effect NCB...but it does go down as a non fault claim, and then with 2 claims in 2 years the premium almost doubled and stayed that way for the next 3 years.

    That said NCB is a percentage, so you should easily be able to calculate the percentage lost this year, and maybe ask them for a voucher for all the hassle as a sweetner off next year's premium?
     
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  4. peterws1957

    peterws1957 Senior Member

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    I doubt that anyone would be able to calculate this with much degree of accuracy. Premiums are all over the place, even on an hourly basis. (twice I've been quoted different premiums hours apart from the same Insurer). I'm not convinced that NCD has the greatest effect on premiums quoted anymore, certainly it hasn't been in my case as I've juggled cover around on my cars. It leads to a lot of frustration on the part of policyholders.
    On the subject of returning overpaid premiums, it was interesting to note that the Ombudsman made Zurich return £16000 to one of their policyholders for overcharging over a period of years on a household policy.
     
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  5. Tony Dyson

    Tony Dyson Senior Member

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    I think you have enough actual information to produce your own estimation of costs incurred and future estimated projections based on historical trends for the purposes you need them, this is a personal projection based on factual information, after all, you're not preparing an actuaries' prediction for a proposed insurance risk, you need a reference to use for when your insurers return to you after they've "Looked into it" providing you have some sound background evidence for your predictions, they're as relevant as anyone else's in predicting future outcomes.
     
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  6. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    I have worked my way up the food chain and got to speak to someone who has already forwarded the missing no claims bonus and accepted there was a loss in renewing without the NCB.

    The issue is to decide how to recover it, he did accept the principle.

    The idea so far is an average from a number of quotes price differences, that seems perfectly fair to me.
     
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  7. fabes

    fabes Senior Member

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    If you get to speak to a person who can make decisions, then you and they may settle on a reasonable number and then can move on.

    good luck.....
     
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  8. OP
    Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Whilst it is frustrating the time actually spent probably comes to a couple of hours so from a financial point of view quite a few hundred pounds an hour will get me out of bed when the cause is good.
    There is also the future savings to be considered.
     
  9. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Yes, just think of the hourly rate at 100 or 200 €/hr your saving, it maybe hassle but that's 20hs worth of work in a normal job (or more after tax). Good luck with it, though I'm not sure how you can make future savings? hopefully the ins co refund you the difference caused by the temporary loss of NCB this year plus a sweetener for your troubles but not sure what else they can give you for the future, it will always be a "no fault claim" that needs to be declared and they can't change that.
     
  10. davemercedes

    davemercedes Senior Member

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    Once again FS, keep going and best of luck.
     
  11. AJD

    AJD Senior Member

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    Can you still make a claim for the depreciation caused by the accident repair ?
     

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