Gearbox Oil Changes

[ernieh]

Hi all, Can anybody give me a definitive answer to when my automatic gearbox oil needs changing.....The car is a C200 compressor, 54 Plate facelift, Vin 203042.

My handbook suggests that a single change should be carried out at 60000km, i.e.37500miles for vehicles with NAG1 and NAG2 and if that applies, the oil change should therefore have been done at the next service, 44100miles. Had the car in yesterday for a service at 54000miles and still no ATF change. The service guy says that if it doesn't come up on the electronic service schedule it doesn't need / get done. Before I start making noises in high places, can somebody please advise? By the way, the car is on a Service Plus contract and other than this, I have not had any evidence of them skimping any of the requirements.

Thanks for any help,advice.


Ernie

 

[brandwooddixon]

I would argue the point or at least have them confirm whether it has ever been done.

MB issued the following document to cover this:
"Circular PW NR. 44/05 NFZ NR. 20/05 24.03.2005" requiring a one off oil change for 722.6 gearboxes as fitted to 203/211/220.

I am currently in argument with them that they should also have applied this to older vehicles with the 722.6 gearbox.

 

[television]

Yes agree with the above,,MB dropped the dip stick and torque converter drain plug on all cars as of 09 98 this was a bad move and is now done at 40k miles. Some dealers still argue that it does not need doing, the reason is that the service info has not been updated,, most indies will do this at around £170 and it does not affect any service rights

 

[ernieh]

Thanks, Gents, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Will get on to their Service Manager today.

Thanks again and regards,


Ernie

 

[Rory]

My handbook suggests that a single change should be carried out at 60000km, i.e.37500miles for vehicles with NAG1 and NAG2

I'm surprised it's in the handbook - it isn't in mine and I thought the requirment to change was introduced some time later.
What does NAG1 & 2 mean?



I have a Oct 04, 54reg C270CDi facelift W203 and it's also on ServicePlus.

When I took it in for its last service the service advisor told me it would need the ATF changing and when I picked it up they told me it turned out that it wasn't required on my car.

I queried this with the Service Manager and he told me the requirement to change the ATF started literally a couple of thousand VIN numbers (like a couple of days production) after mine. As it's not called for on the Electronic Service Sheet then ServicePlus won't pay for it.

I asked him for an explanation of why it wouldn't be necessary on my car and he said he couldn't provide one and, in his opinion, it would be a waste of time asking MB because they wouldn't provide a sensible answer either.

I tend to suspect that it's a warranty thing - once the car is out of range of any likely warranty claim then MB don't see any need to change the ATF.


It is interesting with ServicePlus that my car has needed astonishingly little servicing - even things like pads and disks get noted as being less worn every time I take the car in!

 

[ernieh]

I'm surprised it's in the handbook - it isn't in mine and I thought the requirment to change was introduced some time later.
What does NAG1 & 2 mean?



I have a Oct 04, 54reg C270CDi facelift W203 and it's also on ServicePlus.

When I took it in for its last service the service advisor told me it would need the ATF changing and when I picked it up they told me it turned out that it wasn't required on my car.

I queried this with the Service Manager and he told me the requirement to change the ATF started literally a couple of thousand VIN numbers (like a couple of days production) after mine. As it's not called for on the Electronic Service Sheet then ServicePlus won't pay for it.

I asked him for an explanation of why it wouldn't be necessary on my car and he said he couldn't provide one and, in his opinion, it would be a waste of time asking MB because they wouldn't provide a sensible answer either.

I tend to suspect that it's a warranty thing - once the car is out of range of any likely warranty claim then MB don't see any need to change the ATF.


It is interesting with ServicePlus that my car has needed astonishingly little servicing - even things like pads and disks get noted as being less worn every time I take the car in!

My service advisor said yesterday almost word for word what yours said! I strongly suspect that they don't actually know and that they follow the ESS blindly. I can't say that they have skimped on servicing on my car as I keep an eye on things like pads and discs; in fact they changed my camber arm bushes only 3 weeks ago, along with the track rod ends, without a quibble. As I was due a couple of front tyres, this was helpful as they also checked the front wheel alignment following the work. Actually, the way business is the moment, I would have thought that they would be trying to extract as much out of MB as they possibly can!

For info, the version of my service book is:

Order No: 6515 8132 02
Part No: 215 584 24 95 EN Edition A2, 06/04

The statement relating to Transmission Oil is on Page 30, but I don't know what NAG1 / 2 refers to....any takers on this one?.

I spoke to their service manager today - he wasn't aware of the document Brandwooddixon refers to but said he would find out and get back to me tomorrow. Will let you know of the outcome.

Ernie

 

[ernieh]

I'm surprised it's in the handbook - it isn't in mine and I thought the requirment to change was introduced some time later.
What does NAG1 & 2 mean?



I have a Oct 04, 54reg C270CDi facelift W203 and it's also on ServicePlus.

When I took it in for its last service the service advisor told me it would need the ATF changing and when I picked it up they told me it turned out that it wasn't required on my car.

I queried this with the Service Manager and he told me the requirement to change the ATF started literally a couple of thousand VIN numbers (like a couple of days production) after mine. As it's not called for on the Electronic Service Sheet then ServicePlus won't pay for it.

I asked him for an explanation of why it wouldn't be necessary on my car and he said he couldn't provide one and, in his opinion, it would be a waste of time asking MB because they wouldn't provide a sensible answer either.

I tend to suspect that it's a warranty thing - once the car is out of range of any likely warranty claim then MB don't see any need to change the ATF.


It is interesting with ServicePlus that my car has needed astonishingly little servicing - even things like pads and disks get noted as being less worn every time I take the car in!

My service advisor said yesterday almost word for word what yours said! I strongly suspect that they don't actually know and that they follow the ESS blindly. I can't say that they have skimped on servicing on my car as I keep an eye on things like pads and discs; in fact they changed my camber arm bushes only 3 weeks ago, along with the track rod ends, without a quibble. As I was due a couple of front tyres, this was helpful as they also checked the front wheel alignment following the work. Actually, the way business is the moment, I would have thought that they would be trying to extract as much out of MB as they possibly can!

For info, the version of my service book is:

Order No: 6515 8132 02
Part No: 215 584 24 95 EN Edition A2, 06/04

The statement relating to Transmission Oil is on Page 30, but I don't know what NAG1 / 2 refers to....any takers on this one?.

I spoke to their service manager today - he wasn't aware of the document Brandwooddixon refers to but said he would find out and get back to me tomorrow. Will let you know of the outcome.

Ernie

 

[dragon]

I have a 55 W211 and the handbook said 70K miles. Even the service people at Lancaster Merc was surprised when I tried to confirm with him.

If there is no problem why bother? Leave it.

I read on one of the threads here there was complaint about the speed of changing gears then go ahead and do it yourself if you want faster gears changing. He recommended 30K miles. It quite expensive anyway, the filter and 7 litres of fluid, will set you back several hundreds pounds.

 

[television]

I have a 55 W211 and the handbook said 70K miles. Even the service people at Lancaster Merc was surprised when I tried to confirm with him.

If there is no problem why bother? Leave it.

I read on one of the threads here there was complaint about the speed of changing gears then go ahead and do it yourself if you want faster gears changing. He recommended 30K miles. It quite expensive anyway, the filter and 7 litres of fluid, will set you back several hundreds pounds.

Indies do it around £170 I believe all in

 

[colechelle]

Going to be intresting when people start trying to change there gearbox oil on the 7g box, thats a right nightmare!!!!

 

[dragon]

Going to be intresting when people start trying to change there gearbox oil on the 7g box, thats a right nightmare!!!!

It should last a lifetime like the final differential.

 

[television]

It should last a lifetime like the final differential.

Sorry to be differential here but they do not all last and start whining when pulling

 

[Rory]

in fact they changed my camber arm bushes only 3 weeks ago, along with the track rod ends, without a quibble. As I was due a couple of front tyres, this was helpful as they also checked the front wheel alignment following the work.

That's interesting - I've never been happy with the way my car drives, and it rolls left and has scrubbed the front tyres but they dealer tells me it's fine. Last time (same as ATF discussion) they told me they would check the alignment but when I picked it up they said test drive (the car had done 1 mile) showed it to be normal.

What caused your car to need bushes and other parts replacing?

Actually, the way business is the moment, I would have thought that they would be trying to extract as much out of MB as they possibly can!

At MOT a few wks ago they mentioned the disks were pitted and could do with changing. I said, "well, the car is on ServicePlus, change them" and they said they couldn't as they were quite new and ServicePlus needed the wear figures. I told them they're not new, they're still the originals. With that, the girl immediately said they'd collect the car the next day and change them. I said not to bother, and I thought she was going to cry! How perverse it that - I feel happy that I've done them out of work!

I asked he to come back to me on why the tyres were advised as scrubbed - no response.

For info, the version of my service book is:

Order No: 6515 8132 02
Part No: 215 584 24 95 EN Edition A2, 06/04

The statement relating to Transmission Oil is on Page 30, but I don't know what NAG1 / 2 refers to....any takers on this one?.

Mine is Order no: 6515 8102 02
Part number: 209 584 21 93 EN Edition D 04/03

There's simply nothing in it about ATF change (I especially looked at the 35K mile /60km / 4yr interval).

I've never heard of NAG 1 & 2 before but Googling would seem to indicate that NAG1 is the 5 speed box and NAG2 refers to the 7 speed box. There's a wiki about NAG1 here http://sprinter-source.com/wiki/index.php/NAG1 - this is Sprinter van specific but whether they're the same as the boxes in the cars, I don't know. Perhaps that's the issue - maybe my box isn't a NEW version??

ETA: Bit more Googling seem to indicate that NAG 1 & 2 are Chrysler terms for the MB boxes used in their vehicles - why the terms should appear in an MB service book is a mystery, unless it was printed at the time they were cosying up to each other.

I spoke to their service manager today - he wasn't aware of the document Brandwooddixon refers to but said he would find out and get back to me tomorrow. Will let you know of the outcome.

The text of the bulletin (in German, with a Babelfish translation) is here:
http://mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=136590

 

[television]

I printed off some or the papers where you go over to service plus,, and it states there that the fluid must be changed at 60km thats 40k miles,, there is nothing else mentioned anywhere on the service programs for the changing of the fluid other than that one

 

[dragon]

I had this W202 for 12 years 100K miles and I never change the manual gear box oil never even top it up. I did changed the clutch though once before it was meant for a change and realised I wasted my money doing that.

I was worried like you guys about the final differential. When they open up the filler plugs oil came out instead. Better to leave it as it is.

 

[Blobcat]

Going to be intresting when people start trying to change there gearbox oil on the 7g box, thats a right nightmare!!!!

Had mine done at the last service along with a software upgrade to see about the occasional hard down shift at slow speeds. I've not noticed any difference since the ATF change or the software upgrade.

 

[dragon]

Do what the Merc men know best. Follow the maintenance manual.

 

[ernieh]

Suspension Repairs

Rory,
The problems with my torque arm bushes were first noted on MOT last year as an advisory. Consequently prior to a long run south and replacing my front tyres, I asked them to check out the suspension bushes as the car was now pulling to the left and the n/S front tyre was also wearing on the shoulder.

On checking, they confirmed that these bushes and the tre's were worn to the point of needing replacement. Incidentally, they have since noted that the main suspension arm bushes are now showing signs of deterioration but MB wont replace them until they are worn. I would put the replacement down to fair wear and tear; replacement at the mileage of 54K is not uncommon confirmed by the fact that they had both the bushes and the tre's in stock..

Your hand book by its date, 04/03 is earlier than mine, 06/04; my car was manufactured in July 2004 - maybe that explains the variation in stated service requirements.

Hope this helps.


Ernie

ps No word from my Service Manager today.....surprise, surprise!

 

[colechelle]

Had mine done at the last service along with a software upgrade to see about the occasional hard down shift at slow speeds. I've not noticed any difference since the ATF change or the software upgrade.

My r,class was the same until we took it out and reset the fill times on up shift and down shift, perfect after that!!

 

[Rory]

Rory,
The problems with my torque arm bushes were first noted on MOT last year as an advisory. Consequently prior to a long run south and replacing my front tyres, I asked them to check out the suspension bushes as the car was now pulling to the left and the n/S front tyre was also wearing on the shoulder.

On checking, they confirmed that these bushes and the tre's were worn to the point of needing replacement. Incidentally, they have since noted that the main suspension arm bushes are now showing signs of deterioration but MB wont replace them until they are worn. I would put the replacement down to fair wear and tear; replacement at the mileage of 54K is not uncommon confirmed by the fact that they had both the bushes and the tre's in stock..

Thanks - mine has always run left and has scrubbed the shoulder off the NSF tyre. Also the ride is bone-jarringly hard (it's an estate but is on 16" wheels and doesn't have Sport suspension). Dealer says it's normal and that the suspension is fine.

Your hand book by its date, 04/03 is earlier than mine, 06/04; my car was manufactured in July 2004 - maybe that explains the variation in stated service requirements.

Mine was registered in Oct 04 and I have it in my head that I've seen its build date somewhere and that was Sept 04. As it's an estate and I assume yours is a saloon then they would have been built in different factories, although it does seem slightly odd that my book is relatively old.