Grand Jeep Cherokee 2.7 5th Injector issue

[mavar1ck]

Hi, Just had a call from the specialist diesel injector about my injector. It appears it has had a previous bodge repair with a helicoil which is now not holding. The specialist has told me that the hole is too big for a time sert and there is nothing more they can do.

I have only had the jeep a month so I assume the seller bodge to get a sale.

The vehicle is now a non runner so I am willing to try anything as my only option now is to sell as spares or repair. I am a reasonable DIY mechanic.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Mark A]

Is the helicoil at the top of the hole, and did they drill the original threads out (bottom of the hole only)?

If they only bodged the top you may still be able to install a timesert at the bottom. I did this a few years back on my wife’s W163 ML, I’m pretty sure I posted more info on this forum when I did the repair, feel free to search.

 

[joderest]

There must be a fix, what about having a slightly larger thread cut and using a slightly larger bolt

 

[mavar1ck]

Is the helicoil at the top of the hole, and did they drill the original threads out (bottom of the hole only)?

If they only bodged the top you may still be able to install a timesert at the bottom. I did this a few years back on my wife’s W163 ML, I’m pretty sure I posted more info on this forum when I did the repair, feel free to search.

Hi, I will asked the specialist but I get the feeling they don't want to do anything more as they will not be able to guarantee the work. The garage is 30 miles away from me so I have to arrange collection back to my house before I can do anything myself. They have offered at a cost to remove the rocker cover but this will mean disturbing the other injectors but I will be able to see the hole clearly.

 

[mavar1ck]

There must be a fix, what about having a slightly larger thread cut and using a slightly larger bolt

I want to believe there is a fix as it seems extreme to spare and repair due to one Bolt.

 

[joderest]

I am sure there are people out there that do this fix, I have read about it being done

 

[M80]

By the 5th injector do you mean the back one?
As the head needs to come off to do this why not get a replacement head from a breakers?

 

[mavar1ck]

By the 5th injector do you mean the back one?
As the head needs to come off to do this why not get a replacement head from a breakers?

Hi, yes it is the rear injector. A massive hole has been cut in the bulkhead by previous owner this is how the diesel specialist can see the mess.
The jeep is a 2003 so too expensive to get a garage to swap head more than car is worth and I do not have the knowledge or locking tools to do myself.

I have read that a 10mm Bolt can be used?

 

[Mark A]

He cut a hole in the bulkhead - what a butcher.

I did the repair on the front injector bolt hole which was easily accessible, but did have severe Black Death on the rear one before. At least on the ML once you move the coolant expansion tank you get good access.

In worst case you could change the head for a second hand one. I would look for a cheaper garage to do the swap. The 270 is still one of my favourite engines. When it’s working it is a great drive.

 

[Westheath]

Its common practice to find 60+mm holes cut above the 5th injector on the Cherokees,
with the Mercedes 2.7 CDI Black Death crap bolts being the cause of this practice.

There should be no reason a repair cannot be effected using the access already created.



https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=220&t=1458194

https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/cdi-injector-bolt-repair-time-sert.169126/

 

[M80]

I had considered if I would do the same to Larisa's Gr Cherokee if the rear suffered black death. Now reading that it is a common repair technique than yes I would, why the hell would I want to remove the head if I can get away with it?

As I remember with the ford over head cams that needed replacing every 40k miles, cutting a hole in the bulkhead to take out through the saloon wasn't unknown. If only Ford had stepped the bearing sizes up toward the front, but why make it easy.

The problem with a 10mm bolt is that it won't be a stretch bolt, to the same spec at least. Likely it will work loose with the hot / cold cycles and be blowing again soon enough.

 

[mavar1ck]

I had considered if I would do the same to Larisa's Gr Cherokee if the rear suffered black death. Now reading that it is a common repair technique than yes I would, why the hell would I want to remove the head if I can get away with it?

As I remember with the ford over head cams that needed replacing every 40k miles, cutting a hole in the bulkhead to take out through the saloon wasn't unknown. If only Ford had stepped the bearing sizes up toward the front, but why make it easy.

The problem with a 10mm bolt is that it won't be a stretch bolt, to the same spec at least. Likely it will work loose with the hot / cold cycles and be blowing again soon enough.

I have read that someone has put a spring washer to help maintain pressure and thread lock as well. There does seem to be options not sure why the garage is not trying more and putting a caviate in there invoice.

 

[M80]

If the choice is the write off the vehicle then sealing the injector in for the rest of the vehicles life can only be a benefit. I'm not sure what type of 'sealant' might be good for that though.

 

[Westheath]

I have read that someone has put a spring washer to help maintain pressure and thread lock as well. There does seem to be options not sure why the garage is not trying more and putting a caviate in there invoice.

Some workshops don't entertain your kind of repair not because they cant do it but the down the road consequences of further problems of not doing it properly.

A mobile injector removal/repairer would most likely take it on and do it properly as that's all he deals with all day.




.

 

[mavar1ck]

I had considered if I would do the same to Larisa's Gr Cherokee if the rear suffered black death. Now reading that it is a common repair technique than yes I would, why the hell would I want to remove the head if I can get away with it?

As I remember with the ford over head cams that needed replacing every 40k miles, cutting a hole in the bulkhead to take out through the saloon wasn't unknown. If only Ford had stepped the bearing sizes up toward the front, but why make it easy.

The problem with a 10mm bolt is that it won't be a stretch bolt, to the same spec at least. Likely it will work loose with the hot / cold cycles and be blowing again soon enough.

I have been to the garage today and saw the hole. The 8mm timesert drops straight into the hole and there is the original bolt broken off about 60mm down the hole. The injector faces are clean and have been re-cut. I spoke directly to the engineer who was going to carry out the repair and we came to the same conclusion. Currently the vehicle is a non runner, if he attempts a repair and is successful then I have a working vehicle back. If he attempts a repair and is not successful I still have a non runner I have to arrange transport back to my house. We have agreed to try a bigger timesert which will not pass through the rocker cover as the lip of the timesert will sit on top of the cover. This will allow a M10 short bolt to hold in the injector. I have had to sign a disclaimer for them to do the work. They want to succeed for recommendation and to put on there site that they can repair a stripped out 8mm helicoil in this vehicle. The company specialises in these types of repair and have been around since the 1950's so I am happy that they know what they are doing.

I will let you know the result later in the week.

 

[bembo449]

good luck with that pal , these can be a real PITA no matter how long you've been in the trade

 

[Westheath]

Hmmmm.............

Tool B counter sinks the Cam cover for flush T-Sert fitment.

 

[mavar1ck]

Hi, took some time to fix as No 3 injector went the same way. MOT failed shortly after new brakes all round and tie rods. Jeeps love money!

 

[mavar1ck]

My next trouble spot seems to be the thermostat as it is not getting much above 40 on the gauge. It appears you change the housing and thermostat, whereabouts is the thermostat on a 2.7 crd?

 

[Mark A]

Follow the hoses, on the W163 it is top, right hand side at the front of the engine (looking from the front of the vehicle).