Hard Work Starting 2003 E 270cdi

[Darren W]

Hi all, just joined so please treat me gentle I'm not a mechanic just a Merc Owner with a problem!
E 270 CDI 2003. Owned for nearly 2 years. Had previous Mercs, C200, E 320 CDI Estate.
Suddenly (few months ago), starting issues began. Starts sometimes but only after cranking for ages.
New Battery and I replaced Glow Plugs.
Sometimes it starts but usually after at least 2/3 10 second turnovers. Sometimes just turns for that long get 2 warning messages on dash, Electrical Consumer Switched off and most common ESP.
Sometimes needs jump leads and then usually starts fairly quickly. Have trickle charged battery as well as jumped. But not understanding this as bought new battery.
I'm fairly able but not a Mechanic so any advice please in simple terms. In advance Thanks.

 

[Ben2008]

Hello Darren, I have a 2004 E270 Estate as a second car. It has been a fantastic car, the 270 is a trouble free engine if looked after. But I have had many problems with the battery. It has to be tip top to start the engine. I don't know if you are aware there is a second battery under the bonnet, looking from the front of engine it is on the right hand side under a plastic cover. It is only a small battery but very heavy. I replaced my one last year. I don't know if this is any thing to do with your starting problem.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

If the car has plastic fuel lines on the LP fuel supply line it may be leaking air into the line, they have an ‘o’ ring seal either end which goes brittle over time - new pipes should be available from the dealer

 

[mersum1es]

If it is OM612 o-ring fail applies, if it is OM647 its not the issue (W210 or W211 chassis)

And then again, injector leak test...

http://advanturoustim.com/2018/04/02/injector-leak-back-test/

Edit: and incase of W211 model, small battery under bonnet does not participate to starting

 

[Darren W]

If the car has plastic fuel lines on the LP fuel supply line it may be leaking air into the line, they have an ‘o’ ring seal either end which goes brittle over time - new pipes should be available from the dealer

Hi, the plastic fuel line fittings into the engine snapped when I did the Glow Plugs think I put an elbow in wrong place and they was brittle. Bought new pipe and fittings but they kept leaking! Took forever to get them not leaking basically changed 2 end fittings L shaped into engine then onto pipe and 3 T fittings into engine then into pipe going each way. Could I have created a problem here? Really frustrating never had a problem till this and runs a dream once started, also re-starts though still tasking some time but always first crank even if 5-10 secs.

 

[V6Matty]

That does sound like fuel leaking back and air getting into the lines, did you change the rubber o rings when you did the lines

 

[Darren W]

If the car has plastic fuel lines on the LP fuel supply line it may be leaking air into the line, they have an ‘o’ ring seal either end which goes brittle over time - new pipes should be available from the dealer

Hi, the plastic fuel line fittings into the engine snapped when I did the Glow Plugs think I put an elbow in wrong place and they was brittle. Bought new pipe and fittings but they kept leaking! Took forever to get them not leaking basically changed 2 end fittings L shaped into engine then onto pipe and 3 T fittings into engine then into pipe going each way. Could I have created a problem here? Really frustrating never had a problem till this and runs a dream once started, also re-starts though still tasking some time but always first crank even if 5-10 secs.

 

[Darren W]

That does sound like fuel leaking back and air getting into the lines, did you change the rubber o rings when you did the lines

Hi I replaced the old set with a new set for the plastic fittings. Is the O ring different to the fittings if so no I didnt ?

 

[mioba]

Do get a volt meter across the battery and check its voltage with and without engine running to see if the battery is ok and if the alternator is OK respectively. Faulty batteries are not uncommon.

consumer items and esp always goes when low battery, I assume the messages disaapear after a run around.

It could be you have something on open curcuit causing battery drain.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Sorry I need to correct my original statement - the plastic clips go brittle so when you try to take them off they break and the ‘o’ rings flatten and lose their seal over time. The best solution is to buy 3 new pipes from MB circa @ £65 (which I did on my210) or fit Viton ‘o’ ring seals. Yes once started for the day after the air has been purged the engine will perform perfectly until left overnight and seals contract - classic symptoms. They should have been put down as a service item every 7-10 years but nothing was listed by MB this would have saved a lot of people a lot of bother me included

 

[V6Matty]

Hi I replaced the old set with a new set for the plastic fittings. Is the O ring different to the fittings if so no I didnt ?

Replacing the pipes is the right thing to do but it’s advisable as Malcom says above, drop some button o rings as well and you shouldn’t have an issue after that.

on a side note, your ref number isn’t LG53ONX?

 

[umblecumbuz]

This does sound like fuel leakback. It certainly sounds like the root of the problem, especially as the plastic pipes have gone brittle. How many miles has the car covered? I would expect it to be a high mileage vehicle.

The old adage usually applies: Last thing changed is first thing suspect. The last thing you changed is the fuel pipe and seal. But presumably the hard starting was the reason you began investigating and changing parts, so this adage may not apply in your case.

Two comments: Does the engine restart normally during the day after the hard first start?
One trick that can sometimes pinpoint this problem is to park the car facing downhill overnight. This minimizes fuel leakback, and the engine often starts normally the next day.

Some suggest that the O-rings flatten and leak after a time, but I have found with the venerable 270cdi motor that it is more often the plastic pipes themselves, when they lose their pliability, that are the cause of air ingress.

By liberally coating each joint in thick grease, it is sometimes possible both to determine if fuel leakback is really the problem, and to confirm that any air ingress is coming from the joints.

 

[Darren W]

Replacing the pipes is the right thing to do but it’s advisable as Malcom says above, drop some button o rings as well and you shouldn’t have an issue after that.

on a side note, your ref number isn’t LG53ONX?

Hiya no it’s not.

What I have done is ordered a set of pipes with Aluminium fittings of better quality as first set were a generic set from eBay which listening to feedback sounds like it was possibly a problem.

will update once parts arrive and installed. Fingers crossed

 

[Darren W]

This does sound like fuel leakback. It certainly sounds like the root of the problem, especially as the plastic pipes have gone brittle. How many miles has the car covered? I would expect it to be a high mileage vehicle.



The old adage usually applies: Last thing changed is first thing suspect. The last thing you changed is the fuel pipe and seal. But presumably the hard starting was the reason you began investigating and changing parts, so this adage may not apply in your case.

Two comments: Does the engine restart normally during the day after the hard first start?
One trick that can sometimes pinpoint this problem is to park the car facing downhill overnight. This minimizes fuel leakback, and the engine often starts normally the next day.

Some suggest that the O-rings flatten and leak after a time, but I have found with the venerable 270cdi motor that it is more often the plastic pipes themselves, when they lose their pliability, that are the cause of air ingress.

By liberally coating each joint in thick grease, it is sometimes possible both to determine if fuel leakback is really the problem, and to confirm that any air ingress is coming from the joints.

This does sound like fuel leakback. It certainly sounds like the root of the problem, especially as the plastic pipes have gone brittle. How many miles has the car covered? I would expect it to be a high mileage vehicle.

The old adage usually applies: Last thing changed is first thing suspect. The last thing you changed is the fuel pipe and seal. But presumably the hard starting was the reason you began investigating and changing parts, so this adage may not apply in your case.

Two comments: Does the engine restart normally during the day after the hard first start?
One trick that can sometimes pinpoint this problem is to park the car facing downhill overnight. This minimizes fuel leakback, and the engine often starts normally the next day.

Some suggest that the O-rings flatten and leak after a time, but I have found with the venerable 270cdi motor that it is more often the plastic pipes themselves, when they lose their pliability, that are the cause of air ingress.

By liberally coating each joint in thick grease, it is sometimes possible both to determine if fuel leakback is really the problem, and to confirm that any air ingress is coming from the joints.

She has done 210,000 miles.

What I have done is ordered a set of pipes with Aluminium fittings of better quality as first set were a generic set from eBay which listening to feedback sounds like it was possibly a problem.

will update once parts arrive and installed. Fingers crossed

 

[Darren W]

OK apologies for the delay but have at last got the parts and replaced fuel line as above.
The car now starts after at least 2 long turn overs where as before was not starting before needing jump leads etc.
Surely now should be starting after short while? Any further ideas be greatly appreciated. Thanks and stay safe

 

[mersum1es]

inectors leak measured?

 

[Darren W]

Also to add previously after starting it started ok all day. Now it is the same all day I.e takes 2 or more long turns to fire up.

inectors leak measured?

Hi and thanks for replying. Can you explain what you mean as I’m not a Mech

 

[mersum1es]

Also to add previously after starting it started ok all day. Now it is the same all day I.e takes 2 or more long turns to fire up.

Hi and thanks for replying. Can you explain what you mean as I’m not a Mech

See link in my post #4

 

[Darren W]

Well after a lifetime and having had a healthy bout of CV19 I’m hoping the car is finally done! Was advised that it was the Crankshaft Position Sensor by code fault. Was a very difficult job to (understatement I’m 22 stone and built lol) do but done. Do I need to do anything to reset the sensor or does it automatically adjust? Thank you for the comments and input. My 17 year old Merc now has new Glow Plugs, New Fuel Rail, New Battery, New Crankshaft Sensor lol that’s after the MOT work from Jan of Tyres, Brakes, Exhaust.... Fingers crossed it runs properly as defo spent more than valued at .....

 

[abazem]

Well after a lifetime and having had a healthy bout of CV19 I’m hoping the car is finally done! Was advised that it was the Crankshaft Position Sensor by code fault. Was a very difficult job to (understatement I’m 22 stone and built lol) do but done. Do I need to do anything to reset the sensor or does it automatically adjust? Thank you for the comments and input. My 17 year old Merc now has new Glow Plugs, New Fuel Rail, New Battery, New Crankshaft Sensor lol that’s after the MOT work from Jan of Tyres, Brakes, Exhaust.... Fingers crossed it runs properly as defo spent more than valued at .....

So can you confirm if changing CPS fixed your issue?