head gasket - delaying the inevitable ?

[Dexter]

Mild Leak already diagnosed from head gasket on w124 6cyl (87k) Engine going great with no contamination of coolant, loss of pressure, significant loss of engine oil etc no other cause for concern other than small drops of oil under car currently not too severe but none the less annoying.

Frankly I cant bare living with this sort of imperfection but the HG job on a 24 valve will be £1200+ ! baring in mind car is 11 years old.

Can I expect the leak to not worsen with careful maintenace and considerate driving or will my driving style have no relevance. Would consider disposing of vehicle if driving on borrowed time as cost of other investments in the car in the form of maintenance would be of questionable merit if she will pack up in a few thousand miles anyway.

Grateful for input of those who have faced same dilema

 

[flagstaff]

i've had exactly your dilemma, mate. all the m104 engines lose their gasket at some point, apparently.

mine is slightly higher mileage at 135,000, and slightly more obvious symptoms - oil in coolant etc. i was quoted between £700 (cheap guys, hard to trust whether they'd do the job properly??) and £1400 (respected indy) to have the gasket done. and guess what: being tha kind of guy who always thinks "Well, how hard can it be?" i decided to do the thing myself. and the news is - it ain't difficult at all, if you take the whole thing methodically and have a couple of days to do it.

my car is the 104 2.8 litre, no aircon. if you have the right tools, i reckon the job could be done in a day. in fact, the only special tool required is a slide hammer, which i've bought. oh, and you most likely need an engine hoist. the head is heavy, and could probably be freed from the block with two strong men - but a hoist makes it *way* easier.

my advice would be: do it yourself. you have only two critical things to get right: the exact TDC and cam sprocket alignment, using two 4mm twist drill bits in the holes kindly provided by mercedes benz engineers at manufacture; and the correct identification and marking of all the things you take off to withdraw the cylinder head.

neither of the above two is difficult. i'll even lend you my slide hammer, if you pay postage there and back

 

[paulcallender]

Can I expect the leak to not worsen with careful maintenace and considerate driving or will my driving style have no relevance. Would consider disposing of vehicle if driving on borrowed time as cost of other investments in the car in the form of maintenance would be of questionable merit if she will pack up in a few thousand miles anyway.

Grateful for input of those who have faced same dilema

If a head gasket is leaking, it will go sooner or later. Its one of those things which snowballs. If it goes, it could potentially crack the head, which would mean a new cylinder head, as well as the gasket. This obviously isn't economical. I'd only suggest not replacing a blown head gasket, if you couldn't stop (say if you're 1/8 mile up a drag strip and you're in the finals!)

 

[Dexter]

Thanks gentlemen.

My head is saying wait for the worse symptoms a 'cross that bridge when we come to it' approach by then I may have done another enjoyable 30k which for the ammount I paid for the car is 'job done' wetness is back left edge of block. Not sure if this fault is mileage or age specific - I guess I am hoping that because she is well under 100k the job can wait.

I would have to be in love with the car to contemplate spending 1k plus which I won't see back unless I run it for the next 5 years (by then I will want to be driving a newer version)

There are no shortage of 2nd hand cars out there so I may see if I can find a replacement which has had the head gasket job done trouble is that car is more likely to have more miles with far more other things beginning to wear out than the one I've got. Is this a fair assessment?

Are 4 cyl models any less likely to develop this problem presumably the strip down job would be considerably less at £500 - 1000. Interested to learn if the following model (e- class post 1996) is also prone as would sooner spend money on more modern model.

Comments gratefuly received.

 

[jberks]

E class post '96 is a W210. I'm not aware of any head problems though you may find its the same engine on some models. Then again, the 210 has a whole new set of potentially expensive issues! There is no right answer to your dilemma, been there many times and in fact feel the same way - do I job in a car I've had for 5 years or spend a few quid to re-mint it and run it for another 5.....

 

[zephyr]

For what it's worth I'd go with the DIY approach. I had a head gasket go on a V8 Range Rover last year (I know it's not quite the same), but I'd not done anything like it before and I was in two minds about doing it. It turned out to be an interesting experience. I also changed the cam, timing gear, valves, springs, rods, etc. I think you need to be prepared to 'get stuck' here and there if you've not done engine stuff before, doing it in one weekend sounds ambitious. Stuff like stopping the engine rotating can be a bit of a problem if you've got an auto, and there will be at least one bolt that won't undo. Label everything you take off!

I remember reading somewhere that straight sixes were inherently succeptable to gasket failures due to the head warping. In any case you'd definitely need to get the head checked professionally once it's off the car.

 

[Apial]

Its not the head warping, its the c**p gasket design with an oilway right next to the edge of the head in two places. New gaskets are of an improved design and don't leak. But still send the head off to be checked. You'd hate to do the head agoin next weekend!

 

[Dexter]

oil additive to stop leaks?

Has anyone had any success with the chemical product that you add to your oil to revitalise worn seals and gaskets (broken seals accepted). It sounds barmy but at £6 a treatment as compared to £1k for a strip down for a mild non essential leak i figured its worth a go.

Blurb says it can be use with all oil types for all engines but should I trust it?

Good and bad experiences welcomed.

 

[kth286]

Dexter

Make sure your oil level is no more than half way between the min and max marks on the dip stick when car is cold and level.

Mercedes issued a technical bulletin reducing the oil capacity by half litre from 7.5 to 7 litres for the 104 engine.

You might find the leak disappears, like my 'weep' did.

Which version do you have; the 3 or 3.2 litre ?

Regards

 

[Dexter]

David

Thats an interesting bit of imformation, I have the 280 6 cyl and my haynes manual says the capacity is 7.5 (same as 300 & 320)

I may run the oil down a little lower - annoyingly I only replaced the oil last week and it is currently at the max.

Where was your weep coming from?
Thanks

 

[anyweb]

as a car noob, can someone be kind enough to explain in simple english what a head gasket is ?

i have a leak of oil on the underside of my C220 which i must fix before april 2006 and i'm wondering if it is related to the above

however i have no idea what that is, so please chirp in to an otherwise clueless user.

cheers
anyweb

 

[paulcallender]

as a car noob, can someone be kind enough to explain in simple english what a head gasket is ?

i have a leak of oil on the underside of my C220 which i must fix before april 2006 and i'm wondering if it is related to the above

however i have no idea what that is, so please chirp in to an otherwise clueless user.

cheers
anyweb

An engine is a bunch of delicately engineered and close fitting components which all interact with each other. In an ideal world, you'd have no holes in the engine apart from those needed. But, you have to be able to assemble it, so it consists of main parts: sump, block, head, rocker cover. All these have metal-metal joins, which would leak unless there was a flexible material in between - a gasket. So its an oiltight seal between main components.

There are actually loads more holes in the engine, and a bunch more gaskets. If you were to count them up, probably around 50-60. But the others are little ones.

Your underside leak will inevitibly be from a failed seal of some type. You'd need to have then engine cleaned, and then observe it over time to find the exact location of the leak, otherwise you're just guessing. Culprit could be the sump gasket, though.

 

[tom7035]

In simple English, it is a packing/seal, usually copper-based, fitted between the main engine block (which houses the crankshaft, pistons and cylinders etc.) and the cylinder head on top (which contains the combustion chambers and valves etc.) to provide a gas and fluid-tight seal between their matching machined faces.
Not too easy to explain to a self-confessed 'car noob' but if you never ask you never learn I suppose!
Obviously can't tell from a distance where your oil leak is coming from, I suggest you recruit someone local and knowledgeble about these things to have a look for you. Be aware replacing a head gasket is not just a half-hour job!
Good luck.

 

[anyweb]

finally cleaned the enine and got a photo of the leak

hi, i cleaned my engine some weeks ago with a power hose, i'm trying to locate the source of an oil leak, the car is a merc c220 1995 petrol model and the oil was covering the alternator, the engine and just about everywhere below the dipstick, probably been leaking for 10 years !

the leak however is slow, so slow that not a drop of oil appears under the car, however the was so much oil debris on the underside of the engine that my MOT ordered me to fix the oil leak before the next mot.

so, here is a photo of the leak starting again after cleaning the engine,

it's as good as i could take, any ideas of the cluprit ?

cheers

anyweb

 

[Bolide]

In an ideal world, you'd have no holes in the engine apart from those needed. But, you have to be able to assemble it, so it consists of main parts: sump, block, head, rocker cover. All these have metal-metal joins, which would leak unless there was a flexible material in between - a gasket. So its an oiltight seal between main components.

Like an old Bentley? Some of them had the head & block cast in one piece. No headgasket and, as the bore was about 4.5 inches, easy enough to stick you hand up there when work is needed!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[george shand]

anyweb; The area you show is a complex joint between the cyl.block,cyl.head and engine front cover. It should not really be a problem as this is not an area subject to combustion pressures. The oil leak is coming from the cam chain tunnel and if you can suffer it i would leave it alone and clean the engine as necessary. To effect a proper repair you would need to have the head gasket changed.Best of luck.

 

[anyweb]

thanks shandy for the advice,

so providing that i clean it regularly i shouldnt need to worry ?

cheers
anyweb

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

All depends on whether you want to keep the car. An 11 year old 320 with under 90K on the clock is a rarity and has many years of life left. The financial outlay is a neccessity but I feel money well spent re resale and peace of mind while you own the vehicle. One other thing to consider is that disturbing the engine can lead to other problems and if everything else is fine and it is a small leak 'better the devil you know' and keep an eye on it might be the best philosophy.

Had a coolant leak from the rear of the cylinder head on my 300TE years ago resulting in the head gasket being replaced by a merc dealer. Reasult was water leak cured and promptly replaced by oil leak. The lesson to be learned from my experience was do it yourself or find somebody you have complete confidence in.
Hope this helps!

 

[paulcallender]

All depends on whether you want to keep the car. An 11 year old 320 with under 90K on the clock is a rarity and has many years of life left. The financial outlay is a neccessity but I feel money well spent re resale and peace of mind while you own the vehicle. One other thing to consider is that disturbing the engine can lead to other problems and if everything else is fine and it is a small leak 'better the devil you know' and keep an eye on it might be the best philosophy.

Had a coolant leak from the rear of the cylinder head on my 300TE years ago resulting in the head gasket being replaced by a merc dealer. Reasult was water leak cured and promptly replaced by oil leak. The lesson to be learned from my experience was do it yourself or find somebody you have complete confidence in.
Hope this helps!

You could always simply loosen, then retorque the head bolts.