How long before we attack the sniper vans ?

[Blobcat]

I believe they classify it as perverting the course of justice.

Would they take the same view if you stopped your mate in the pub from driving home because he'd had one too many?

Or that you are flashing on coming motorists because there is a hazard ahead of them? If camera vans are there to slow motorists down then flashing your lights at them has the same effect although no one gets £60 that way...

 

[Myros]

sorry to sound confused

but did herbie post this thread because he's about to be fined for speeding when he was speeding.
Expensive perhaps, annoying definitely, but I can't see what the fuss is about.
If you were speeding, the only possible defence you could mount is that the relevant repeater signs on the lamposts if in a built-up area weren't correctly mounted, if above 30mph. If a 30mph zone, then that's what you default to if there are no higher limits posted. If coming in to a 30 zone from a "de-restricted" area, then there should be 30 signs, and a system of streetlighting, to denote it's a built-up area.
There will probably be a few additions to that list, but the long and short of it was "were you speeding, and were you caught speeding?" If yes to both, then why should a fine be a surprise.

Let's be honest, if we were fined automatically for every time we went over the limit, few of us would have any disposable income left.
As someone said before in the thread, it's not the worst situation we could be facing.

 

[D1gger5]

Not only sniper vans but it is getting even more big brother:-

M4 from Bristol to Cardiff has been havinf the bright yellow stanchions/SPECS cameras.
M5 from Bristol to Brean Sands also.

These average speed cameras may be used for more than speed monitoring so gone are the days of rising just over the 70 limit. It gets even more awkward when they signs are 40 or is it 50 for roadworks (where's the damn cones?) around Newport, South Wales.

Diggers

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi jon harley, you have completely missed the point and taken the message out of context. if somone says they could have died for you, they do not mean they would really die. it was just a use of metorphoric expression.

i have two grandsons who would like to join the army but i don't want them blown up with a roadside bomb or shot with a sniper, for what ? if you have a loved one there get them back, most brits do not know what it is about, and many brave youngsters have paid the price and had no life. this is a much heavier subject than the subject i have posted, good luck to you and yours but you are completely off my subject. metorphorically the entrapment speed vans are weasels and snipers. best wishes. herbiemercman.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi myros, and st4, my beef is about entrapment, how can warning an oncomming motorist be any different to your "satnav" warning ? the authorities accept that speed warings are ok.

i am not against speed humps, 20 mph zones, gatso's placed near schools, etc. but i do not like being screwed for nothing.

the "sniper vans" are so obviously making money and making most motorists less safe.

they will not last.

the brits are not as responsive as the french but we do move eventually when we are being abused by hypocrits.

the current government are slowly realising this situation. herbiemercman.

 

[madf]

I have lived with speed cameras for the past 2 decades: Think A50 Stoke on Trent south.

So far I have been lucky or kept my eyes open or obeyed the speed limits.

It's not difficult if you drive with due care and attention.

 

[LSD]

but did herbie post this thread because he's about to be fined for speeding when he was speeding.
Expensive perhaps, annoying definitely, but I can't see what the fuss is about.

I envy you your relaxed and accepting attitude to being subjected to ever tighter and ever less realistic profiteering opportunism - all lubricated by 10 years inculcation of a hugely exaggerated "safety" mantra, that unfortunately too many people have swallowed.

99.99999% and more of speeding offences result in no consequence WHATSOEVER. There are many more driving issues that have a much larger effect on safety. They are harder to police, enforce and prosecute - so guess what happens.

Speeding is not a crime, it is a transgression. This whole vast opportunity for revenue and social/economic control is possible because travelling at ludicrously slow speeds in capable, safe modern cars is counter-intuitive and difficult to do. It is particularly difficult (and aggravating) to suddenly have to drive at stultifying speeds after many years of things as they were - all for no benefit that I've ever seen proven.

My appreciation of the excellent road system we had until not so long ago began to fade the first time I saw a large open road reduced to a 40mph limit for NO genuine reason at all. I fully understand HERBIEMERCMAN'S frustration and that of anyone else that gets plundered like this, for that is exactly what it is.

I hadn't heard until this thread of anybody actually being prosecuted for giving finger signs. No "sticks and stones" view by Big Brother the playground bully eh? Talk about dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's. It shows the nasty don't-mess-with-us attitude that now prevails. It will get worse the longer it is tolerated. Don't look for morals or benefits in what's being done to our roads - there are none.

 

[LSD]

It's not difficult if you drive with due care and attention.

It will be when it's 20mph everywhere - if it doesn't drive you nuts first.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

It will be when it's 20mph everywhere - if it doesn't drive you nuts first.

Sadly, and to the point made by LSD, there are times when the limit might be 20 mph and that would be too fast - for example, passing a school at the end of the school day with cars parked along both sides of the street.

The speed limit muppets do not seem to understand this. It is not speed that correlates with incidents, it is bad, or thoughtless or incompetent driving. But, as he said, it is harder to typify and to police.

 

[Birdman]

Interesting that the 11% drop in 'killed and seriously injured' on the roads last year coincided with the first full year in which not one new Gatso was installed and many, many decommissioned while the number of mobile speed traps has dimished. Speeding fines no longer go straight into the coffers of the 'Safety Partnerships' and many have been disbanded because they don't screw revenues from motorists and never were anything to do with Road Safety.

Speed traps are and always were about coshing transgressors rather than educating road users and that misguided policy has indirectly killed thousands over the years.

 

[Myros]

lot's of cross-purposes here

I can see everyone's pov, honestly I can. But be a it a bobby on a bike, a gatso, a "sniper" van or just the neighbourhood watch with a stopwatch, the law has to have been broken for action to ensue.

Few of us have the time to go back and check that the road conformed to standards, re signage, surface and so on. god forbid there should be a fatality, and the Accident Investigation Branch of the local ploddery have to do all that for us. How many of us would know where to start. ( i know, loads of us would probably)

I agree, we ought to spend the money on education, re-education and improving the driving environment. I used to be a driving instructor, it's an open door with me. Merc do their bit. No-one else spends as much on safety R&D as they do, and it shows. Look at the "office" for a merc driver. Every post-war carof theirs has been pretty much on the money re passive and active safety, comprehensive and intuitive layout of instruments, controls etc. All part of the equation, a major part of it imho. I'd rather be at 8/10 in a merc than 10/10 in a Max Power hatchback. Any merc.

But at the end of the day, law enforcement is about just that. If no-one polices an area of activity, it is ripe for abuse.

The local ring road is like a rehearsal for 2 fast 2 furious or some other such rot. You could staff it permanently with whatever means of enforcement you like as far as I'm concerned. It might just bring the speeds down. Do it often enough, and they might stay down. Last week, the local ploddery deliberately reloaded all the Gatsos in broad daylight, very visibly. No road races that night, or the night after. Word gets around.

I'm sorry herbie was nailed for a few mph over the odds. Sadly, speeding is an absolute offence. It has to be, or the courts would be clogged up with reasonable people like Herbie, and the rest of us, pleading our cases, and mixed in there would be all the numpties claiming the same defence. it would never work.

At least with a traffic cop he/she has discretion. I'm not sure I'd devolve that to the local council staff in the vans,( no insult intended, but they can't always get the bins emptied in an orderly fashion)

The best weapon is the driver. alert, properly trained, and paying attention. Oh, and just a bit lucky as well.

 

[roadhog]

At least with a traffic cop he/she has discretion. I'm not sure I'd devolve that to the local council staff in the vans,( no insult intended, but they can't always get the bins emptied in an orderly fashion)

The Safety Camera Vans round here are staffed by plod on overtime not council people.

 

[gibsones135]

hi jon harley, you have completely missed the point and taken the message out of context. if somone says they could have died for you, they do not mean they would really die. it was just a use of metorphoric expression.

i have two grandsons who would like to join the army but i don't want them blown up with a roadside bomb or shot with a sniper, for what ? if you have a loved one there get them back, most brits do not know what it is about, and many brave youngsters have paid the price and had no life. this is a much heavier subject than the subject i have posted, good luck to you and yours but you are completely off my subject. metorphorically the entrapment speed vans are weasels and snipers. best wishes. herbiemercman.

I would say that the majority of folks reading your original post would have read it and understood the spirit with which it was written. I think your reply above was very well couched.

Regards

 

[3146bj]

While travelling above the posted speed limit is an offence the only reason it is enforced with such vigour is to collect revenue. It has absolutely nothing to do do with road safety, otherwise the police would be highly visible to act as a deterrent.

Speed cameras here are not marked in any way, but while they have to be located within strict parameters, they are operated by private contractors and prosecutions occur for any speed more than 3 km/hr over the limit. The fines collected in Victoria (about a quarter of Australia's population) alone run into the hundreds of millions of dollars each year and are a signifcant contribution to the State's budget.

The "speed kills" mantra is used to justify what is really just another form of taxation, when proper accident investigation would show excessive speed is only a very minor contributing factor.

It all comes back to making the most money with a minimum of effort while the government is seen to be doing something about the "road toll".

 

[keith100]

"Its the rich what gets the pleasure, and the poor what gets the blame.....It's the same the whole world over"

As are the bl**ding hidden speed cameras, The Gov gets the money and we get the points:lol:

 

[Birdman]

Anyone with a few minutes on their hands would do well to browse this site:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/effects.html

It demonstrates to me that there is no difference in principle between the way the speed bureaucracy pursues its self-interests than any other non-accountable special interest lobby.

It comes down to the abuse of logic & statistics to gain political leverage and a larger share of national wealth. Their lies, and our passivity, has cost many lives.

Truth is always the first victim.

 

[Dosco]

Perhaps this is the answer: -

ex Swiss Army BMW (500cc I think)

 

[Blobcat]

ex Swiss Army BMW (500cc I think)

I was thinking of getting an updated option for my GSA "radar guided hellfire missiles" I have the stubby wings already.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi birdman and dosco, great attachements. herbiemercman.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi blobcat, i have made enquiries about wether the mobile "sniper vans" can only hit you from the front only ? many of my biker friends are adament that this is the case.

also in my village the "sniper van" reverses into a farm gate using the n/s window for the lazer, the offside of the van has no facility to hit your cars' rear as the dense hedge obstructs this.

i am only labouring this point as i have a design which works for lowering and raising the front number plate.

i am law abiding and caring for other road users as i have explained earlier, but i will respond when i am being "screwed". sort of "fight fire with fire" . herbiemercman.