Independants and newer models

[CliveM]

How are the independants at working with newer models.

From what I understand most of the independant specialist are ex Mercedes techs, and so whilst may have excellent knowledge of the cars they were working on when at Mercedes, may not be so up to date with there knowledge of newer models (e.g A series/new C/S) and the new technologies of ASSYST, ESP, Brake Assist, etc)

My MB dealer claims that their computer systems to interface with the current models and system are not avaliable to any of the independants, does anyone know if this is true - or just the dealer trying to keep business?

 

[dieselman]

Andy will give the best reply, but I believe there are many available systems.
Don't forget that nearly all high tech systems on cars are generic and made by an outside manufacturer.

 

[Andy]

Hi All,


This is a very good question. I cannot answer for all independants out there. But for myself. Keeping up with technology and investing in it is one of my biggest overheads. It has to be said that not all independants hold this in high priority. With my philosophy (if it has a star on it we will do it) comes a high price. Technology is only a part of it albeit a significant part as if you can't read the faults then you are blind. The other part is experience. As even with the technology, the computor will at times only put you in the ball park area. Piestore will probably agree with me here. Only with experiece and the equipment which must have live data available (live data allows us to see what the vehicle sensors are actually reading). Will any technician find a fault on these modern cars. For myself and my business if have an acess to a wealth of information. Most of the dealers in the midlands I have contacts with, and with the volume of cars we see, we get a good cross section of faults. But I would always say we are probably 2-3 years behind the dealers, in technology and experience. That gap is closing as the manufacturer of my equipment is trying to close the gap. And we are having younger cars into our workshops.

Even the dealers are having problems. The technology is not foolproof as with some of the customers with complaints that the dealers can not rectify their problems. New E class's Sl's are quite a problem from what I can see. And I am not in any hurry to see these vehicles in my workshop. But it is my full time job to keep my contacts with the dealerships, to find out the problems how to rectify them and to help with the manufacturer of our diagnostic equipment to make sure they give me what I need, not what they think I need.

I know of course these vehicles will sooner or later be visiting our workshops. But for those of you out there looking for independants. You need to know if they can not only service your vehicles but can you sort any of my problems as well. Or at least look at them.

I would say the minimum list of requirements for any independant has to be.

1. A four gas emission analyser. What ever is happening at the front will be seen in the emmissions. A bit like a blood test.

2. Some sort of tool to interigate the onboard computors.

With out these two tools you are just guessing. Some independants use there local dealers to do the fault diaganossis. Some invest in the equipment needed. Only you out there can tell others on this forum whether you local independant dealer can deal with the latest vehicles or not. Its getting harder for us independants, but not impossible!


Hope this makes sense.


Regards

Andy @ www.mercedesservicing.com

 

[CliveM]

Independants and Technology

Thanks Andy for the detailed reply.

You say that you are 2-3 years behind the dealers which I imagine is usual as most new cars will be going back to the dealers for repair/service until the MB warranty end - with most of your work coming after this time, so you should be starting to see a couple of A Classes by now (they have a star on it but not sure if it is really a MB - Do smart cars have a star somewhere??)

Its good to know that at least some independants are keeping up with progress and should be able to deal with the newer models in the future.

Just a couple of questions tho.

1) Are there any MB models over 3 years old where you do not have the equipment to intergratre with the Onboard computers?

2) You mention that you have contacts at MB dealers where you can get advice on a problem, but have there any instances where you have not been able to complete a job and had to send the car over to an Official MB dealer, due to parts/equipment etc? or can you do everything a dealer can?

 

[piestore]

Older models

Hi

What a question ???

As Andy has said we all struggle to keep up with the technology and we are rapidly approaching the point where the cars are impossible to diagnose. From the dealers point of view we are always the first to have the new software to cope with the new systems, this in itself creates no end of problems because it very often doesn't work and what used to work on the last version may not work on the new version (updates every one or two months)

As far as the indepedants go things will change drasticly in October 2003 when "block exemption" regulations will apply. Im not an expert on this but as I understand it anyone who meets the min requirments will be able to carry out warrenty work and service work on any MB without it affecting the warrenty. MB will have to make any facilities avialable to there dealers avialable for ALL ( at the same price) this includes TEC backup and Star diagnosis machines and software. A basic star machine costs us about 150 quid a month, this would be avialable to all, at the moment it is only avialable to MB dealers.

MB have already started to increase the cost of meeting the Minimum standards as the have just issued a new special tools list at a cost of about 35K

 

[Andy]

Hi Clive,

There are some vehicles which are problamatic. The main one is the V class. With self levelling. Or ENR. The problem with this vehicle it doesn't respond to MB software let alone any body else's. I took one vehicle into one dealer. They told me they couldn't read the fault & suggested there may be a problem with the connection to the main engine ECU. I took it into another dealer without somemuch as lifting the bonnet & there star read the faults. Again as Piestore has said & he is at the front line. The software does not always work. It does not follow that, if it worked on a earlier model then it will work on a later one. And after speaking to my sources there are instances where after an update it dosn't work on the older model, but works on the new. You the customer never see these problems and think that its just plug in and away we go. Most of the time it should. And even does. But when it does not work. You are just Knackered!!!

As an independant and I know there may well be some independants reading this. Not one software besides the MB stuff. Does it all. Most promise a lot and deliver very little. Its a costly road but its down to experince.

As for my own equipment . I have learnt to trust it with most things. But I will admit its not as good a the Star!

Clive, I assume you have an A class & we have started to see these vehicle in. Fortunately they have not had any major problems. I have two Smarts, I have not tried my equipment on them at all. We have had new S class 's in for service.


As for becoming a reccommended MB outlet. I am not sure its for me. I have not seen the criteria. But warranty work is hassle work. Leave the dealers with their territory. And they will leave me alone. They don't especially want my work or as many who read this forum will testify. If it doesn't look the part they don't want to know. But I must say that this is some and not all the dealers. My old dealership in B'ham, will tackle any vehicle not matter how old. And I know they have the experience in the older technicians to carry it through. I can't comment on the rest of the country. But from what you the readers have said this is not the case at all the dealers. Nor should it be taken for granted that the dealers will have all the experience especially on the older cars.

You can only judge on your own experience and other peoples experience. So the more contributors the better.


Regrards

Andy @ www.mercedesservicing.com


PS. I will be contacting Milton Keynes and find out how much one of the Star Diagnosis Machines will cost me!!! :shock HOW MUCH!!!!