Insurance Fronting

[johnmc]

Hi All,
Never rains but it pours here. My neighbour's 19 year old son is facing jail over a car crash. Trouble is, his mum insured the car with him as second driver, but it was really him that was main driver. He was driving a 3 year old VW Jetta, with substantial Halfords modifications of course (22 inch wheels, bodykit etc). He had a crash, the insurance figured out who the real main driver was and now the car is off the road. His policy was cancelled, he needs to pay the damage to his own car and the other car involved. He's being sued for a couple of thousand in whiplash by the other driver's insurance too.

But the biggest issue is insurance fraud and driving without valid insurance. Looks like the insurance are going after the uninsured driver, not the mums and dads. Something to watch out for if you've got kids on the road. My own son is insured as the only driver on his old Punto, but I sure see the temptation for insuring them as a second driver when they really are not. Kids pay a fortune for their polices, proportionately far more than when I wa learning.

God nows what the insurace make of the modified cars without proper cover..!
John

 

[A210AMG]

Hello

I'm not supprised this goes on but its wrong. Thats why I started with old minis on Third party insurance an Mr Bean style door locks then upgraded to fire and theft....

I would think half the mods you see on some cars are not disclosed to the insurance companies. Remaps, none standard alloys, spoilers, etc

Don't know if its still the same now but when looking in autotrader at the bargain bins when I was a wee nipper there were quite a few cars Ford for example, Ford 1.6 with 2.0 l engine, but log book says 1.6???....so guess what it will be insured for...

Sorry but I tell the insurance anything and everything, as they WILL find a way out of pay outs if they can. I feel for the people they hit if un insured

There are lots of speciallist insurance companies available for modified cars etc Max Power (sorry to swear) is full of them.

The main thing I hope is all the people involved are not seriosuly hurt.

 

[Mr Teddy Bear]

I was struck fm the rear by a careless driver. My rear bumper needed painting
first thing the bodyshop did ?.................check the tread depth!!
I bet if its going to be expensive they will check the speed rating.
Woe betide if you have 110 or 130MPH speedratedtyres on 140mph car ?!!!!!
I bet National Speed Limit argument counts for nowt

 

[Bolide]

To be blunt, if he can afford to buy bodykits, big wheels & tyres then he can afford to pay for insurance. And solicitors fees. And fines

Or am I too cynical?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[beemerjay]

To be blunt, if he can afford to buy bodykits, big wheels & tyres

My feelings exactly! Should have dealt with the important things BUT then again peer pressure is a wonderful thing sIsn't it???

Or am I too cynical?

nope I'm right behind you, those bits that they just "had to have" on the car, have to have cost near as much as his premium would have been OR is it just Mummy an Daddy lookin after Diddums???

 

[Phil D]

sounds like one less liability on the road - must be good news - if we had a zero tolerance & active enforcement policy on this sort of stuff the roads would be a lot safer and our own insurance costs would be less as well

 

[johnmc]

I with you on that Phil. I'm sick of seeing kids in "Halfords Specials" racing around knowing that the cars are not insured worth a damn. I've warned my own son that if he starts game he'll get no support from me at all. Luckily he's got ethics anyway and wouldn't.

On a lighter note, his old Punto gave me a laugh the other day. He's not one for tidiness and one of his friends remarked to me that "you can always find a tasty snack on the floor of his car"!

John

 

[MIW615]

sounds like one less liability on the road - must be good news - if we had a zero tolerance & active enforcement policy on this sort of stuff the roads would be a lot safer and our own insurance costs would be less as well

Totally agree and why isn't it made law that proof of insurance shouid be displayed - something like a disc (like the tax one) is displayed on the screen, thus any car seen not displaying an insurance disc on the screen would result in the owner being procecuted

 

[Phil D]

Totally agree and why isn't it made law that proof of insurance shouid be displayed - something like a disc (like the tax one) is displayed on the screen, thus any car seen not displaying an insurance disc on the screen would result in the owner being procecuted

It works in Italy - years ago I had a Lancia which had a funny little plastic plate held against the windscreen behind the rear view mirror - turns out it was to hold the insurance certificate which must be on display in Italy

(it also had the most beautiful sounding twin cam engine - and before anyone laughs it was a company car so no depreciation worries - not for me anyway tee hee!!)

Seriously the problem of non insured cars in this country is absolutely massive & noone seems to be remotely interested in doing anthing about it

sorry about the rant, but my dad drove black cab in Glasgow and had it written off when it was broadsided by a moron with no insurance - set him back years financially and still makes my blood boil every time I think about it

 

[MIW615]

Seriously the problem of non insured cars in this country is absolutely massive & noone seems to be remotely interested in doing anthing about it

Surely in this modern day and age it could be addressed, might take a bit of time, but so what - it would be better for the motorist and far better than spending £££££££££££ on more speed cameras and hitting the motorist with easy fines

 

[verytalldave]

Surely by having a tax disc displays the fact that you have insurance?
OK, the insurance may very well end up being invalid for all sorts of reasons, but I cant see how that could be effectively policed - except by making it part of the MOT process.
I have a 19 year old son who will be taking to the roads soon. He has already asked me if he could become a "named driver" on my policy, or do what the orginal poster has described. I laughed and refused point blank. No discussion.
Its a sad statistic, but most males of below 20 years old are unlikely to escape an "accident" within their first year of driving.
I dont mind saying, the prospect of my son driving scares me s***less.
I can now see why my mother strongly discouraged me from buying a scooter when I was 16.
Of course, another point often overlooked, is the fact that most modern cars are SO much faster than cars from my earlier generation. My son has a basic Clio ready for use when he gets his licence.
The performance of this standard 1.2 Clio is about on par with a 1965 Lotus Cortina. A car that in its day was considered a "very fast" car. Thats when I was driving a Hillman Imp (0-60 in 22 seconds - top speed - 76mph).
No wonder insurance premiums are sky high.

 

[Richard Moakes]

My son has a basic Clio ready for use when he gets his licence.
The performance of this standard 1.2 Clio is about on par with a 1965 Lotus Cortina. A car that in its day was considered a "very fast" car. Thats when I was driving a Hillman Imp (0-60 in 22 seconds - top speed - 76mph).
No wonder insurance premiums are sky high.

Thats a very good point, although I expect brakes are better etc...

Perhaps we do need some sort of power limit for younger drivers, they might not think it 'cool' but they would be safer and perhaps pay less for their insurance.

 

[MIW615]

Surely by having a tax disc displays the fact that you have insurance?

Not really, the tax may be valid, but the insurance could have expired, also there are no insurance details on a tax disc. The idea of displaying a seperate "insurance disc" would be, for instance that in the case of an accident the third party can easilly take the insurance details from the disc.

 

[verytalldave]

Not really, the tax may be valid, but the insurance could have expired, also there are no insurance details on a tax disc. The idea of displaying a seperate "insurance disc" would be, for instance that in the case of an accident the third party can easilly take the insurance details from the disc.

Good point.

 

[rf065]

The performance of this standard 1.2 Clio is about on par with a 1965 Lotus Cortina. A car that in its day was considered a "very fast" car. Thats when I was driving a Hillman Imp (0-60 in 22 seconds - top speed - 76mph).
No wonder insurance premiums are sky high.

And all on cross ply tyres too.......................

Russ

 

[Blobcat]

Thats a very good point, although I expect brakes are better etc...

Perhaps we do need some sort of power limit for younger drivers, they might not think it 'cool' but they would be safer and perhaps pay less for their insurance.

Just like bikes then

 

[Richard Moakes]

Just like bikes then

It seems to work for bikes, so why not?

 

[Rory]

Surely by having a tax disc displays the fact that you have insurance?

People that do this buy daily insurance or take out insurance over the web then take advantage of the ability to cancel within 7 (or whatever) days.

 

[Legoman]

problem is theres soooo many uninsured people out there , the computer systems onboard the cop cars is constantly going off , they stop a percentage of them , but alot slip through the net , in the last few years everything to do with cars is being stored on a computer , hence there persistance on declaring off the road every 12 months etc , this means when your number plate is entered it lets the cops know exactly the status of the car , there getting hotter on modified cars too , alot of youngsters drive around in undeclared modified cars , crash and are in turn ruining it for the honest young ones , the premiums are ridicolous these days for new drivers , my m8 at works son is 17 just passed his test and bought a 1.1 clio worth £1200 , his premium for TPFT is £1700! lol. im glad im a relatively old bugger , my premium is a respectable £470 on protected fully comp with breakdown cover which aint bad considering the car

 

[E200K]

Over here (Australia), provisional drivers are prohibited from driving certain cars. These include vehicles with:
Eight or more cylinders.
A turbocharged engine (except diesel).
A supercharged engine (except diesel).
Engine performance modifications.
Certain high performance six cylinder engine vehicles.

And then there are the exceptions to these rules which include examples of moderate performance turbo/supercharged vehicles such as:
Audi 1781 cc, A3 and A4
Mercedes-Benz 1796 cc, C180, CLK200K, E200K, C200, C230 and SLK 200K
Saab 1988 cc, 9-3 Linear, Arc and Vector
Volvo 2521 cc, S80, XC70 and XC90
Volkswagon 1781 cc, Passat, Beetle and Golf
... although these must be the principal family vehicle.

And then there is an exception if a prohibited vehicle needs to be driven for work purposes.

Another thing. Should an exemption be granted (it also has to be paid for), the exemption will be limited to specific circumstances and may be limited to certain vehicles. There is no blanket exemption.

There are also restrictions on the number of passengers carried.


Clear as mud, isn't it.

That said, I must be getting old. When I was 17 I was quite happy with an old 2CV.