Is diesel still better than petrol?

[V6Matty]

I did Wengen Switzerland to Nottingham in one go with just two short stops a few years ago, left about 9am and got home about 1am.

 

[DSK]

I don’t think it’s a case of how many miles you do in one one go but, on the off chance you need to and the convenience of just being able to do it, perhaps a splash n dash if needed rather than, start to ‘plan’.

An ex colleague, mentor and very close friend is now retired and enjoys a yacht and helicopter lifestyle. He’s been and done it all with cars but has never been a car guy. He now knocks around locally in a jaguar EV and loves it. He says it costs little to charge/fuel, free parking, quiet and it suits him carting friends and family to local doctor/hospital appointments. He also bangs the environmental drum. Now whenever we have met at events and functions, he’s always either hired or borrowed an ICE car. He says he just wants to get where he needs to be rather than spend time planning routes and charges etc, which is why he doesn’t use it for anything other than local stuff.

DPD delivery driver had a quick chat with me saying he loves his EV dpd van, it can do 0-60 in sub 6 secs (he claims), quiet, comfy but no one wants to service the Maxus so that a serious and big issue for them.

I’d personally not entertain an EV until all the chargers are the same (which I understand is a current problem), EV tech is improved as it’s totally fresh still and having insight in to the EVs via work there’s a lot to improve and come over the years, such as motors, battery tech and range for starters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cleck]

I'd also point out that I've just had the first EV service at MB Leeds and it was £236, so not the massive saving you'd expect. I think the £236 paid for a quick health-check and topping up the washer fluid. I can see how I may come across as entirely negative about the EV experience, but I'm truly not disappointed that I've tried it; it's just not convenient enough for me because I'm impatient.

 

[jp williams]

I'm sticking with my diesel thanks, until it breaks. Which according to the popular thinking will be tomorrow!

I`m with you on this Stuart. My W210Diesel is now 20 years old, done 260,000 miles and still has the original Engine,Gearbox and Transmission.......and the original exhaust ! It costs me nowt relatively speaking,to keep.

 

[Srdl]

An interesting post here

Hybrid C350 High Voltage Pyro Fuse Blown after reversing into a bollard.

The vehicle in question is a C350 Hybrid reversed into a bollard, hitting the high voltage charging point. As a consequence, the seat belt tensioners activated, and the Pyro fuse was detonated in the High Voltage Battery pack. (No Airbags went off) There is a tennis ball size dent in the bumper...

forums.mercedesclub.org.uk

 

[bembo449]

I'd also point out that I've just had the first EV service at MB Leeds and it was £236, so not the massive saving you'd expect. I think the £236 paid for a quick health-check and topping up the washer fluid. I can see how I may come across as entirely negative about the EV experience, but I'm truly not disappointed that I've tried it; it's just not convenient enough for me because I'm impatient.

its nice to read an honest review of EV ownership , i think most are still in denial that they have done the right thing in buying one , others are blinded by the constant barrage of propaganda pumped out by the media etc , that EV is the future of transport !

 

[Blobcat]

If you look to the left of the below picture you see the bright new electric future…



Please don’t look to the middle or the right as that it the environment killing past and must be taxed out of existence…

The connections between the 3 units are of no consequence and should be ignored when appraising the environmental performance of the unit on the left…

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Yep, EV is all about reducing NOx levels in the local environment and other nasty emissions to save our children no point in sitting them in classrooms with some of the emissions levels recorded over the past few years it’s tantamount to being a criminal act. The wider implications to the planet of the pollution caused by manufacturing EV and producing enough electricity to service their widespread use is an issue not being addressed at the moment. lack of energy security in the U.K. and EU is another real problem, cart and horse comes to mind as usual due to our short sighted politicians - what a reactive bunch they are. I did notice that BJ as one of his last acts in office signed off part government funding for Sizewell C - It’s a start but long, long, overdue

 

[MBDevotee]

I did Wengen Switzerland to Nottingham in one go with just two short stops a few years ago, left about 9am and got home about 1am.

But doubtful thats a daily or weekly occurrance!

I've done a long trip of 450+ miles once in a year - with a 40 min stop..... hardly inconvenient.... I also don't ever wait in fuel stations.....

People should all stop walking in case you get hit by lightening.. I mean it's probably never happened but it MIGHT......
Or perhaps that one trip once a decade means it's worth spending a fortune on fuel taxes etc "Just in case"......
How often do people "Suddenly" and with no warning have to make a 600m trip?? I would vouch never.

I have a situation where if my Mum was taken ill I would need to jump into a car immediately and drive to her, so I usually keep mine over 60-80% charged - but if I was in Scotland and she was taken ill in Bristol then I would just have to accept that I would need a 40 min stop. Given the likeliness of that happening and the frequency of it, I'm prepared to make that trade.....

Given of £1.80 a litre of Petrol I'd spend about £3250 a year on Petrol in a 40mpg car - of that, probably £1.40 per litre of it is tax & duty, and I would use about 1800 litres of the stuff in a year, £2500 of my spend is duty in a petrol car - I am probably paying £300 a year in electricity and paying £15 in VAT on that... So compared to a Merc A180 Auto the EV savings are about....

Saving of £2950 for fuel (if I paid it - company car)
Saving of £165 road tax (if I paid it - it's a company car)
A Merc A180 DCT petrol BIK rate is £9877 - so actual tax to pay for 40% taxpayer is £3951
Fuel scale charge BIK is £8096 - tax at 40% on that is £3328

So if I had an A180 it would be slower, noisier, and cost me about £7279 a year in tax or £606 a month.

Mine has a BIK of £699 - so at higher rate tax I pay £280 per year or £23 a month in Company car tax. There is no fuel scale charge BIK!

In my case it's even better, because I'd also pay 16% child maintenance on the £9877+8096 BIK rates - so 16% of £17973 or £2875 a year as well !!! (But I realise that's a very personal thing - others won't have that).



So - Let me ask you - if someone asked you to wait at a charger on a long trip you make once a year, but in compensation for a 40 minute wait (but in reality probably 20 minutes as I'd need to go to the loo for 10-20 mins anyhow on a trip like that) they would pay you £6999 AFTER TAX for the "inconvenience" you wouldn't take that deal? Nearly £7000 for 20 minutes inconvenience??

That's exactly the situation with an EV.

Oh, and if that "horrible" wait very rarely is a huge issue there are EV's now that will do 10-80% in 18 minutes.... so that can be fixed too if it matters to you!

Now I realise if you don't have a company car the figures are different, but the savings are immense for basically no real inconvenience at all....

But of course there were those who insisted that the Motor car would never catch on.... Or when I used to sell website design back in 1995 when people would tell me that "That internet thing won't really catch on, I don't need a website for my business" (yeh, really!)...

It's really a bit like this....



I don't have time to talk to any damn fool salesman - I have a battle to fight........

 

[Craiglxviii]

I suddenly have had to make 600 mile trips every time a supplier screws up. Between once a quarter and once a week.

 

[A.J.]

Talking of replacing a knackered EV battery, here is a copy of an invoice for the replacement of a EV battery on a Chevrolet Volt after only 70,489 miles. Note it is in Dollars not Pounds as it is from the USA. Another reason why I would not entertain an EV !!



That makes the Chevrolet Volt a very expensive car

 

[MBDevotee]

Talking of replacing a knackered EV battery, here is a copy of an invoice for the replacement of a EV battery on a Chevrolet Volt after only 70,489 miles. Note it is in Dollars not Pounds as it is from the USA. Another reason why I would not entertain an EV !!

View attachment 79042

That makes the Chevrolet Volt a very expensive car

Yep, but I have a 7 year warranty and have to change the car at 3 years on a PCP like 99% of new car buyers.... so not an issue.

I do agree, like any modern car one out of warranty might be an issue - but I think that pretty unusual - what percentage of EV's need their battery replacing - I'd venture under 1%

 

[MBDevotee]

Talking of replacing a knackered EV battery, here is a copy of an invoice for the replacement of a EV battery on a Chevrolet Volt after only 70,489 miles. Note it is in Dollars not Pounds as it is from the USA. Another reason why I would not entertain an EV !!

View attachment 79042

That makes the Chevrolet Volt a very expensive car

Also, that’s an estimate not an invoice - I could get an estimate to replace my battery - but as it’s 100% SOH why would I need to? It doesn’t mean this car had his battery replaced?

We are replacing a guys engine and transmission at work - it’s trashed, 21 plate. Seized up on motorway at 80mph, why? Wrong oil used in a service at a non-franchised repairer. £13000. So using that logic - never buy an ICE car as the engine and gearbox might go.... but that’s rubbish - he needs a new engine as he’d used wrong oil, this volt owner may have parked in flood water for a month - we don’t know the story....

Picking ONE example really doesn’t make a point.

I hear a Honda broke down once - does that mean all Hondas are unreliable?

Almost every criminal has at some time worn jeans, does that make everyone who wears jeans a criminal?

Least reliable cars in the UK

Revealed: the UK’s least reliable cars

The Warranty Direct Reliability Index reveals the country’s least reliable cars

www.motoringresearch.com

Not an EV amongst them.....

But this just shows that statistics can show anything!

 

[A.J.]

I would suggest that replacing an ICE on a 21 registered vehicle is the result of a seriously abused car. The estimate for the replacement of an EV battery is not. We are talking about two very different situations here.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I would suggest that replacing an ICE on a 21 registered vehicle is the result of a seriously abused car. The estimate for the replacement of an EV battery is not. We are talking about two very different situations here.

Yes, but we’re talking to a dyed-in-the-wool EV convert about those here, so it will never be a straight apples to apples comparison on a whole-life-emissions basis, no study of grid resilience or energy security, it’s just electric = better.

 

[V6Matty]

But doubtful thats a daily or weekly occurrance!

I've done a long trip of 450+ miles once in a year - with a 40 min stop..... hardly inconvenient.... I also don't ever wait in fuel stations.....

People should all stop walking in case you get hit by lightening.. I mean it's probably never happened but it MIGHT......
Or perhaps that one trip once a decade means it's worth spending a fortune on fuel taxes etc "Just in case"......
How often do people "Suddenly" and with no warning have to make a 600m trip?? I would vouch never.

I have a situation where if my Mum was taken ill I would need to jump into a car immediately and drive to her, so I usually keep mine over 60-80% charged - but if I was in Scotland and she was taken ill in Bristol then I would just have to accept that I would need a 40 min stop. Given the likeliness of that happening and the frequency of it, I'm prepared to make that trade.....

Given of £1.80 a litre of Petrol I'd spend about £3250 a year on Petrol in a 40mpg car - of that, probably £1.40 per litre of it is tax & duty, and I would use about 1800 litres of the stuff in a year, £2500 of my spend is duty in a petrol car - I am probably paying £300 a year in electricity and paying £15 in VAT on that... So compared to a Merc A180 Auto the EV savings are about....

Saving of £2950 for fuel (if I paid it - company car)
Saving of £165 road tax (if I paid it - it's a company car)
A Merc A180 DCT petrol BIK rate is £9877 - so actual tax to pay for 40% taxpayer is £3951
Fuel scale charge BIK is £8096 - tax at 40% on that is £3328

So if I had an A180 it would be slower, noisier, and cost me about £7279 a year in tax or £606 a month.

Mine has a BIK of £699 - so at higher rate tax I pay £280 per year or £23 a month in Company car tax. There is no fuel scale charge BIK!

In my case it's even better, because I'd also pay 16% child maintenance on the £9877+8096 BIK rates - so 16% of £17973 or £2875 a year as well !!! (But I realise that's a very personal thing - others won't have that).



So - Let me ask you - if someone asked you to wait at a charger on a long trip you make once a year, but in compensation for a 40 minute wait (but in reality probably 20 minutes as I'd need to go to the loo for 10-20 mins anyhow on a trip like that) they would pay you £6999 AFTER TAX for the "inconvenience" you wouldn't take that deal? Nearly £7000 for 20 minutes inconvenience??

That's exactly the situation with an EV.

Oh, and if that "horrible" wait very rarely is a huge issue there are EV's now that will do 10-80% in 18 minutes.... so that can be fixed too if it matters to you!

Now I realise if you don't have a company car the figures are different, but the savings are immense for basically no real inconvenience at all....

But of course there were those who insisted that the Motor car would never catch on.... Or when I used to sell website design back in 1995 when people would tell me that "That internet thing won't really catch on, I don't need a website for my business" (yeh, really!)...

It's really a bit like this....

View attachment 79041

I don't have time to talk to any damn fool salesman - I have a battle to fight........

TLDR
Not sure why you picked on my post either, it was a general example of the types of driving I do and in reply of other that had posted about some of their other longer trips, nothing directed towards you or EV use!

As you did say it works for you, good for you, it wouldn’t work for me or my young family, so please stop trying to shove it down my throat

 

[MBDevotee]

I’m not trying to shove it down your throat, I’m trying to get people to see that it can and will work for almost anyone.

My boss drives EV. He does between 50,000 and 60,000 miles a year all over the country. He was terrified about going EV, but in his case he was told he HAD to because of the savings to the company. He’s been in it for 4 months now, has had a couple of times a charger hasn’t been working and has had to find a second (and he is rapid charging every single day) and says despite his initial concerns, he will never go back to an ICE car.

I’m not ramming it down throats, I’m saying the concerns people are expressing are normal concerns that have come from the media and EV haters on the internet, but actually when you use an EV they just aren’t an issue.

And if owning an EV was so rubbish why would people like me BECOME such big fans? Surely we’d be slagging them off and going back to internal combustion - I am not such a fan because I bought one and now have to shout about it, I had the same concerns when I bought it everyone does - but I now have seen just how good they are, whereas everyone who is saying they “won’t work for me” has probably never lived with one for any length of time....

But as said before, if you want to keep running diesels and petrols it’s not so bad, as it puts off the day they have to start taxing EV’s for the rest of us....

 

[Craiglxviii]

Because it’s free for you.

Running my car is effectively free for me. So I have no incentive to change.

 

[Noddy 99]

I’m not trying to shove it down your throat, I’m trying to get people to see that it can and will work for almost anyone.

My boss drives EV. He does between 50,000 and 60,000 miles a year all over the country. He was terrified about going EV, but in his case he was told he HAD to because of the savings to the company. He’s been in it for 4 months now, has had a couple of times a charger hasn’t been working and has had to find a second (and he is rapid charging every single day) and says despite his initial concerns, he will never go back to an ICE car.

I’m not ramming it down throats, I’m saying the concerns people are expressing are normal concerns that have come from the media and EV haters on the internet, but actually when you use an EV they just aren’t an issue.

And if owning an EV was so rubbish why would people like me BECOME such big fans? Surely we’d be slagging them off and going back to internal combustion - I am not such a fan because I bought one and now have to shout about it, I had the same concerns when I bought it everyone does - but I now have seen just how good they are, whereas everyone who is saying they “won’t work for me” has probably never lived with one for any length of time....

But as said before, if you want to keep running diesels and petrols it’s not so bad, as it puts off the day they have to start taxing EV’s for the rest of us....

I've never driven an EV so I have no comparative experience; they might be great. They might even be revelatory.

BUT what p***** me - and I suspect a lot of other forum users - off is the ludicrous price premium over equivalent ICE models. When we're talking £30,000 for even the most modest super-mini EV, then my hackles rise and I couldn't give a stuff about the ownership experience or how it drives. It's just a rip-off.

Another factor: although my Green credentials are negligible, I've read enough in passing to know that - in whole-life resource terms - EVs are NOT better for the environment.

So... unless it's your company car, you're paying cynical prices for a cynical product. You've been sold a pup.

Not for me, Clive.

 

[jp williams]

I've never driven an EV so I have no comparative experience; they might be great. They might even be revelatory.

BUT what p***** me - and I suspect a lot of other forum users - off is the ludicrous price premium over equivalent ICE models. When we're talking £30,000 for even the most modest super-mini EV, then my hackles rise and I couldn't give a stuff about the ownership experience or how it drives. It's just a rip-off.

Another factor: although my Green credentials are negligible, I've read enough in passing to know that - in whole-life resource terms - EVs are NOT better for the environment.

So... unless it's your company car, you're paying cynical prices for a cynical product. You've been sold a pup.

Not for me, Clive.

The third para says it all really.