is it a cossie? ??????? ? ? ?? ? ?

[cossiedude]

so come then, which 190e's are cossies then ???
I reckon all the 16V 190e's are because cosworth developed all their engines???....


G

 

[190easy]

coswhat?

come again?

 

[bazza]

The 2.3-16 was developed by cosworth from the Merc M102 engine. The 2.5-16 was done in house by MB. It was based on the 2.3-16 but used a number of different internals.
Neither were officially called 'Cosworth' and lets be honest, do you want people to confuse it with a Ford?

 

[cubicincubi]

cosworth are a design house, they did the gearbox for the volvo T5, they've done lots for other manufacturers. the 2.3 isnt exactly a rally car though is it.

 

[bazza]

No, but was designed as a rally car until Audi came along with the Quattro and MB said sod that and went touring car racing instead

 

[cubicincubi]

It wasnt designed "as" a rally car - rallying was 'considered' for its use in motorsport by MB but they realised it would be an unsuitable platform to stage the car. They were simply building a sports model of the variant and it was going to be good, they just needed to decide in which arena it would see its greatest support and following.

It was designed as a production car which when sold money could be banked, motorsport helps manufacturers bank money.

I own a Group A road going version of a WRC Rally thouroughbred which I can assure you was designed as a rally car from it's first concept, and yes it's infamy would help general sales of that particular model and its variants and the other cars of that manufacturer.

Don't get me wrong, 190E cossie - its a great car for what it is and was but it wasn't "designed as a rally car" it was designed as a sports variant of the model line up and it had to be placed correctly in competition events to ensure success in sales and to safeguard MB reputation.

My merc indie specialist has a proper Cosworth Sierra 2 door coupe running 500BHP with twin 200SX tubbies and a 100hp progressivley controlled nitrous kick for the straights, fully stripped out and for track use only - it aint exactly classed as a ford either.

 

[bazza]

Calm down!
I think 99.9% of people knew the 190 wasn't designed from the outset as a rally car but the 16v was developed to go rallying along the lines of a Delta Integrale over a standard Delta.

Now, if there are any more hairs you wish to split, feel free 'oh great one' with a
"Group A road going version of a WRC Rally thouroughbred"


PS Which Group A car do you own that was designed as a rally car from day 1(not doubting, just curious)

 

[mercmonkey]

thought group B was the specials developed specifically for rallying, like the rs200, audi s4, lancia 037 etc

 

[cubicincubi]

Now, if there are any more hairs you wish to split, feel free 'oh great one' with a
"Group A road going version of a WRC Rally thouroughbred"


PS Which Group A car do you own that was designed as a rally car from day 1(not doubting, just curious)

I'm just posting accurately in response to your claim. and that's all. no need to get upset mate.

re: my other cars, I discuss them at their relevant forums. this is a MB forum.

 

[mercmonkey]

I bet its a mistsi EVO

 

[cubicincubi]

thought group B was the specials developed specifically for rallying, like the rs200, audi s4, lancia 037 etc + I bet its a mitsi evo

lol. no mate not a mitsi - ok, i'll play, I just dont wanna get warned for off topic'ing a thread ya see, being a newbie and all.

Was the scooby then not developed for rallying?

ok, my hobby car.

Though it aint 'that' special or current evo power though it will leave a unmodified sl500 0-60 and in the twisties and match its top speed, also beating the 1/4 mile. so not bad, though not spectacular.

Clues. the rally team retired in 1999. When the car was launched, in its short lifespan of the first incarnation the driver won the drivers title. The manufacturer now aims at F1. The original design was found to be restrictive so the rally team sent it back with a list to the manufacturer who changed it, therefore an early model and revised model of the same generation are out there, I have the original and early model not available to europe as designed by the manufacturer, prior to specific modifications found on the WRC spec road car, though it is the initial intentioned rally car, it just didnt suit the stages for the specific team. the redesigned second incarnation dominated WRC in it's time. The 3rd incarnation was winning and got banned for being too darn good , they had a few years out then came back and won using the same engine and drivetrain - realising there was no one left to beat they hung there gloves up and quit while ahead. The car is widely unknown in terms that the evo and the suburaru tend to dominate current association with rallying. The car is 15 years old. Its locked up and only plays in the dry months, i take it to club meetings and motorsport events to play, it does less than 10 mile per gallon when used properly, otherwise i see 15-20mpg all other times. So points to guess what it is, I'd like to think it's rarer than a evo and far better looking for something that is just used for fun as a wee hobby.

 

[mercmonkey]

celica GT4

 

[bazza]

Got to be a GT4, banned for a year when they broke the rules.

 

[cubicincubi]

a V.rare early top spec factory edition too. but otherwise dwarfed in power by the later ones.

so anyhow, we've addressed that only the 16V 2.3/2.5 had the cosworth developed head, it wasnt a cossie, a ford cossie is a rally car and the early proper ones are no shame to own if used properly (imho), a 190e 16V isnt a rally car and I have a piece of jap plastic missile which isnt a great claim to fame. lol.

And what merc do you hack around in mercmonkey?

 

[cossiedude]

well lets just clear this up, MERCEDES went to COSWORTH to make their M102 engine more powerfull ( by fitting a 16V head to it) with a view to going rallying and homologation, which they abandoned / didn't do due to the audi quattro.
they then decided to go saloon car racing, they also turned to cosworth for their saloon car engines ( evo I and II)
So to clarify - cosworth developed the M102 engine to 16V , they supplied ALL yes ALL the 16v heads heads to mercedes, the 2.3, the 2.5 and the two EVO's.
Cosworth had the contract to develop the 2.3 the 2.5 and the two EVO's engines,but they supplied only the heads.
Mercedes paid £1200 for the 2.3 / 2.5 heads
Mercedes paid £4500 for the EVO heads
I know these figures are facts !!
AMG did not develop the 16V engines !!!!!!
yes I agree that none of them are "cosworths" because they didn't engineer the whole car.
But they did develop the engines, so it winds me up when people say only the 2.3 is a 'cossy'
yours rantingly
G.

 

[cossiedude]

oh yeah - Toyota - cheating bas'tads, could only win in rallying by cheating the rules, got done recently for poaching ferrari software to analyse the data from F1 car !!!! - LOL !!!
same motorsport headquaters in germany !!!!! got caught cheating again LOL !!

 

[mercmonkey]

currently a 2.0E but on the lookout for a 16V.Daily driver is my Mundano company car
When I want my internal organs reorganised I Take the bike out (Ducati 916SPS)

In the past I have owned something similar to you celica, a 1985 Renault 5 Turbo II (the mid engined wide arch one not the GT) Unforunately owning something like that, a mortgage, wife and kids tends to drain resources and it had to go..... closely followed by the wife

 

[190e-nut]

those renault 5 turbo's were good fun very fast...I had the pleasure of blowing one up once ...it made me grin from ear to ear for weeks after...

 

[stwat]

Calm down!
I think 99.9% of people knew the 190 wasn't designed from the outset as a rally car but the 16v was developed to go rallying along the lines of a Delta Integrale over a standard Delta.
QUOTE]


LOL

 

[stwat]

those renault 5 turbo's were good fun very fast...I had the pleasure of blowing one up once ...it made me grin from ear to ear for weeks after...

Thats why dont see many of them any more, cos they all blew up!!!!! I knew of at least 4 when i was i youngster!!!!

Stu