Juddering..

[Conor]

Hello all

A quick question, if you will..

I've narrowed down a juddering / vibration in my S212 this evening on a late drive home.

Slowly accelerating from 40 to 60mph, at about 2k RPM under mild load and throttle just eased on.... i.e. Very careful driving... I get a real judder and vibration on the underside of the car.

I'm going to say it feels like the driver seat is vibrating and not the steering wheel... I say this because some people specifically say the CV joints cause the steering wheel to vibrate - not sure if that applies to RWD cars too.

A bunch of people have said it is usually the driveshaft couple (donut).

What's a solid way to check this and diagnose? Get underneath and check it? How do I check CV joints.. when jacked up, try to move the wheels at 12 and 6 o'clock and then 3 and 9 o'clock?

Thank you.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Are you loosing any coolant and is the radiator the type that is combined with a heat exchanger for cooling the automatic gearbox fluid? What you’re describing is classic coolant mixing with automatic g/b fluid which contaminates the torque converter causing the car to judder at low revs, or it could just be down to wear and tear on the gearbox. This is the first thing I would be checking out and if not a fluid change would be my first course of action with a wear additive.

 

[Conor]

Are you loosing any coolant and is the radiator the type that is combined with a heat exchanger for cooling the automatic gearbox fluid? What you’re describing is classic coolant mixing with automatic g/b fluid which contaminates the torque converter causing the car to judder at low revs, or it could just be down to wear and tear on the gearbox. This is the first thing I would be checking out and if not a fluid change would be my first course of action with a wear additive.

Err... don't seem to be losing coolant..... but err.. yea, I forgot to mention the GB situation.

I think the transmission is at nearly 200k miles on the same fluid :blimey .. It've been "meaning to get around to it" since about 3 months into ownership of the car which is nearly 4 years ago :/

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I think a full g/b flush is in order and what comes out will certainly be interesting - hope it solves the problem

 

[Wighty]

Err... don't seem to be losing coolant..... but err.. yea, I forgot to mention the GB situation.

I think the transmission is at nearly 200k miles on the same fluid :blimey .. It've been "meaning to get around to it" since about 3 months into ownership of the car which is nearly 4 years ago :/

Jesus buddy !!

 

[Wighty]

I think a full g/b flush is in order and what comes out will certainly be interesting - hope it solves the problem

We might need pics

 

[Conor]

Jesus buddy !!

I know....Time flies eh :/

 

[Conor]

Ok everybody.

I have just this minute concluded that I am 99% sure this is a torque converter problem .. as highlighted by @malcolm210 this is certainly a torque converter issue.

For some time now I noticed when cruising on the motorway that the rev counter needle will dance just a little bit.. and if I add a slight bit of throttle then it will dance a bit more.. then put engine under high load and it stops. I also just had a look online and a bunch of places saying this issue arises around 40 MPH .. and when do you think I start to feel it!?

I noticed on a motorway drive last night that the judder is totally in sync with the needle jumping.. so I guess for now, I can leave the "guibo"/propshaft coupler to one side.

Here's the thing. The car needs an overhaul. Valve stem seals need doing and will be removing the heads to inspect rest of engine.. so engine is coming out.

I reckon while this is going on i'll just renew the torque converter at same and then fill up with fresh fluid. I don't fancy wasting the fluid finding out the torque converter is shot.

The other solution albeit temporary would be a friction modifier.. This seems a common issue on earlier L322 Range Rover and those guys swear by Dr. Tranny instant shudder fix.

Also looking at the price of torque converters .. I haven't found my exact part number yet, but it looks like MB are quite expensive for them. I'll probably go aftermarket with a SACHS converter as they are probably making them for MB anyway, right?

Video for reference of what I am talking about.
(I had a passenger sit in the pack and record the video).

 

[ajlsl600]

I'd. Start on fliud and filter change. Go from there.

 

[LostKiwi]

TC was my first thought....

Gearbox oil change is a good place to start and there's no harm changing the coupling.

 

[Wighty]

I think @bembo449 may have tried a shudder fix additive a few years ago ??

 

[Conor]

I'd. Start on fliud and filter change. Go from there.

I don't know.. you see the engine is coming out in the next few months. I already have a transmission service kit. If I do that and it doesn't work it's a bit of a waste. I think I would have a lot more comfort just swapping out the torque converter for £400 and then adding the new fluid and filter.

TC was my first thought....

Gearbox oil change is a good place to start and there's no harm changing the coupling.

I think i'm just going to change the TC to be honest, engine will be out getting pulled for head work anyway so might as well swap out then.. after the job I'll have a fresh engine and TC.

I think @bembo449 may have tried a shudder fix additive a few years ago ??

 

[Conor]

Also what is the worst case scenario if I put another say 2k miles on this .. will the judder just get progressively worse?

Nothing will explode will it?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Yes your symptoms sound like converter lockup judder.

It doesn't usually get worse once started.

At 200k it's probably got a worn TC clutch. You can try Dr trannys judder fix, it's not going to make it worse

 

[Wighty]

I’m not sure you are allowed these days to say “ Dr Tranny”

 

[Conor]

Here's the memo by the way.

It's gender neutral juice now..

 

[alexanderfoti]

Dr gender neutral shift juice judder fix

Haha

 

[Blobcat]

Here's the memo by the way.

It's gender neutral juice now..

Missed off Master and Slave…

 

[Conor]

Ok guys ....

So I need to make some decisions here. I think I really want to finish my Clio build before I tear into the E class.

With that in mind I am thinking about replacing the fluid in the transmission and will drain TC too. Is there any chance that could render the car unusable ?

I ask because the internet seems divided on this - a lot of people say the clutch dust is helping with friction on a worn clutch. The new fluid won't have enough friction?

 

[Snake Charmer]

I think the transmission is at nearly 200k miles on the same fluid :blimey .. It've been "meaning to get around to it" since about 3 months into ownership of the car which is nearly 4 years ago :/

I would give the gearbox an overdue oil and filter service then go from there. Can the torque converter be drained on your gearbox or does the oil cooler return line need removing to flush?