LED Upgrade

[George1957]

Hi anyone recommend a brand to upgrade headlight fog lights and daytime running to led's ,it's for my c200 sport 2010. Thanks

 

[V6Matty]

No as their not legal and actually put out less light than standard bulbs

 

[George1957]

No as their not legal and actually put out less light than standard bulbs

Thanks for the info, I will look into why their not legal

 

[Botus]

because the bulbs produce light from a totally different spot, the light unit would need to be designed to match to ensure the light went where its supposed to and doesn't blind other users....

you can get plenty of LEDs that are 8000 lumens which is 4 times whats legal.... but if you see straight on the led you'll see nothing else for a few seconds

 

[V6Matty]

@Craiglxviii can give you the full technical info on why. In short it’s due to how LED’s emit their light and how it reacts with the reflectors in the light housing scattering light in a very poor pattern, then legal part is as simple as it wasn’t built with then and the lighting unit hasn’t been tested in accordance with global laws

 

[Gazwould]

Wow some are stuck in time , both post Van Helsing coach candle technologies can replicate the ancient... .

 

[robin.large]

Prehistoric as maybe, but correct nonetheless.
MOT in UK will fail LED bulbs if they are in a non-certified light enclosure, also HID for the same reasons. No choice in the matter..
Incandescent bulbs used to be measured by the power they consumed, more power equals more light. Hence the original 55W limit.
HID and LED are not measured in this way so output is difficult to quantify against regulations.

Eurocar Parts do a decent range.

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[Botus]

Wow some are stuck in time , both post Van Helsing coach candle technologies can replicate the ancient... .

been running 2000 lumen per headlight bulbs in the focus for the last 2 years, brighter than my S class xenon's, don't pop every 10 minutes like the stock H7 headlight bulbs do (even with the ford official bodge it fix resistors in play)

the BIG thing here is the std Focus outer light unit has the shield in front (silver / chrome bit in front of the bulb) so other users don't look directly at the LED. THUS the light goes backwards and bounces off the reflector putting light where you need it… they actually dazzle far less than the legal LEDs fitted on mercs from the factory

doesn't make them legal but at least you can see where you are going

 

[V6Matty]

Prehistoric as maybe, but correct nonetheless.
MOT in UK will fail LED bulbs if they are in a non-certified light enclosure, also HID for the same reasons. No choice in the matter..
Incandescent bulbs used to be measured by the power they consumed, more power equals more light. Hence the original 55W limit.
HID and LED are not measured in this way so output is difficult to quantify against regulations.

Eurocar Parts do a decent range.

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It’s why they switched to lumin total output for how to measure,

 

[robin.large]

Interestingly it is likely that any car after 2009 with LED or HID also will require headlamp wash system and a working levelling system?

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[LostKiwi]

Thanks for the info, I will look into why their not legal

It's a mix of Construction and Use regulations, UK lighting regulations and UNECE regulations.
Basically you must use approved (e-marked) lighting components and lighting enclosures can only use approved headlight bulbs.
UNECE regulations dictate what is required to gain approval and (for example) an H7 the regulations specify filament alignment, length, position, mountings and every other physical characteristic of the bulb.
As an LED has no filament it cannot be approved for use in an H7 housing. Ditto an HiD bulb.

 

[V6Matty]

Not quite as cut and dry as that now I think, the newer regulations are about light output and if below a certain point don’t need either system. So the MB LED matrix for example doesn’t actually need them but the HID units do

 

[LostKiwi]

Not quite as cut and dry as that now I think, the newer regulations are about light output and if below a certain point don’t need either system. So the MB LED matrix for example doesn’t actually need them but the HID units do

Below 2000 lumens don't I believe.

 

[V6Matty]

Below 2000 lumens don't I believe.

That number rings a bell but I couldn’t remember exactly,

 

[Craiglxviii]

2000lm is the cutoff for HLC yes

 

[Craiglxviii]

Wow some are stuck in time , both post Van Helsing coach candle technologies can replicate the ancient... .

No, stuck in law. Not time.

Define how a retrofit solution will replicate the beam pattern (not brightness) and pattern edge spectral bleed of the original lamps fitted to <any> car. Because that is what the car was designed around and homologated into each different market with.

Example. Vulcan XH.558, the last flying V-bomber. That had its LORAN navigation cabinet (weight, 350lbs) removed and a simple commercial off the shelf GPS system fitted when it was returned to flight. LORAN had already been retired. But it still required a complete CAA airworthiness IFR positional plotting evaluation FOR THE AIRCRAFT TYPE to be allowed to take to the air again.

Same with cars. Just because “it’s bright innit” doesn’t mean it’s legal- or even safe.

Ask LostKiwi what it’s like taking his Smart Roadster for a rag around in winter time when everyone has their headlights on...

 

[Gazwould]

Didn't say nothing about law , you , I , LK and the whole forum knows changing a light bulb for the incorrect type will see you sodomised by the Police.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Didn't say nothing about law , you , I , LK and the whole forum knows changing a light bulb for the incorrect type will see you sodomised by the Police.

You didn’t, I understand that. But I did. Because it’s the law (ok, strictly speaking the legal requirements for motor vehicles to adhere to the conditions under which they were homologated) that defines these things.

“We are almost finished with your insurance quotation. Can you tell me if your car has been modified in any way?”

‘Yes, I’ve fitted completely different light sources for all frontal lighting. They’re much brighter than before.’

This is what I mean. It’s the same argument as swapping out a 1.4 litre I4 engine producing 84bhp for a 5.7 litre small block Chevy without upgrading the brakes. Or radiator too for that matter.

 

[Gazwould]

It depends on what they can immediately see .


Behind projector lenses , nothing .

 

[robin.large]

Provided the emitted light is close to the right temperature and the beam conforms to the patterns in the receiver box at MOT then most testers will let it through.
If it doesn't they won't.
So if the colour, intensity and pattern need to conform, then I'm not sure where the advantage is in changing?

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