Loss of Power problem in CLK 230 !!! AGAIN :(

[Balal]

well! about march this year my CLK started having loss of power poblem, Got MAF changed, catalytic converter changed, back pipe changed and spark plugs changed but problem was still there, soooo finally local merc dealer kept car for about 3-4 days and invoiced me £299 saying

"check and rectify poor running,carry out diagnostic test and assess several stored faults. check condition of airmass and throttle valve, oil contamination present. Trace oil to air cleaner, suspect residue due to mileage covered. Clean out coil cooler, lube up flap to actuator control, check for oil vapous origin, Remove spark plugs,check compression - all ok, Reset engine management, road test- all ok""

This was in April this year. (there is an old thread on forum about it ) Now this morning, driving back to Edinburgh on M8, car showed the same lack of power over 3000 rpm again!!! and even at low revs, car is showing lack of power.

Its been almost 3000 miles since the MAF was changed. and all the above was done by dealer. I was told that I might need air actuator if the problem still persists. I think maybe its time to replace the actuator.

I am just wondering! whats the age of MAF ? do they go wrong in 6 months ? the position of MAF in engine is a bit different then the one shown in the pictures in MAF cleaning thread. Mine is down on the left side of radiator. And its all oily from outside. is it normal ?

eh! will call the dealer tomorrow ... lets see how much they charge this time

 

[television]

That's bad luck, I wonder if it is related to the vacuam system/ pipes in the top of the engine that lets oil get onto the MAF.

Malcolm

 

[Blobcat]

MY dealer has said they warrant their work for 12 months, so if it is exactly the same problem and requires the same fix it should be worth asking them to fork out. The only problem is if they say it is something different...

 

[Balal]

MY dealer has said they warrant their work for 12 months, so if it is exactly the same problem and requires the same fix it should be worth asking them to fork out. The only problem is if they say it is something different...

thats a good news about 12 months warranty .... lets hope they have same rule in all dealers as its exactly the same power loss problem as before.

Dealer did suggested that maybe one day would have to change trottle body (air actuator), so this is what i think it would come down to!!! just hope the faulty part is covered by the car warranty! have only used my warranty once and they paid £120 when i got my MAF changed. and this inculded 50% of part cost and 45 min labour

 

[Balal]

I have taken these two pictures this morning.

I have a feeling that MAF is placed at an odd location, can anyone comment on that please ?!

secondly, as i stated in message above, there is oil deposited outside the MAF. is that normal or there is some major issue !?!

any input much appreciated!

 

[jberks]

I've not seen one located there before, but if that's where they've put it, fair enough. Given that it's a compressor I guess space is tight and they have to fit the MAF in a specific location. On mine it's before the turbo, it looks like it's after the compressor on yours. However, I doubt you could fit one in the wrong place.

Didn't I read somewhere of a problem with the compressor leaking oil into the air intake system?
It does appear to be coming out through the MAF, unless anything around it has been cleaned.

 

[television]

I've not seen one located there before, but if that's where they've put it, fair enough. Given that it's a compressor I guess space is tight and they have to fit the MAF in a specific location. On mine it's before the turbo, it looks like it's after the compressor on yours. However, I doubt you could fit one in the wrong place.

Didn't I read somewhere of a problem with the compressor leaking oil into the air intake system?
It does appear to be coming out through the MAF, unless anything around it has been cleaned.

You should have the breathing/vacuam system check In the top of the engine,I am sure there are some mods for this.

malcolm

 

[Balal]

Taking car to dealer tomorrow..well date is nearly changed so today soooooooo lets see what he says now.. will ask him about the breathing/vaccum system as well..
Thnks Jberks and malcom.

 

[jimsinessex]

Hi Balal, sorry to hear you are having probs again.
My MAF sensor is in the same place as yours (1999 CLK 230K)
I experienced exactly the same deposits of oil on the outside of the MAF housing as you describe when it was playing up.
I posted a very detailed write-up on what cured it for me at the end of your previous thread "Oil in Air Intake", 6000 miles on everything is still OK.
Briefly the cure was to replace the entire section of the crankcase emissions system situated under the intake manifold.
I detailed all part numbers required and an explanation of how the emission system works.
Good luck

Jim
P.S. I believe the Throttle Body (if that is the air actuator referred to) is a complete expensive red herring, it causes idle problems usually not the ones you are experiencing. The oil around the MAF is the key symptom for me.

 

[Balal]

Thanks for the useful information Jim

I dropped my car at the dealer this morning. and I did specifically told him about th valve and tee-piece in ths cranckcase area. and I did mention that I want them to check the part numbers ( that u mentioned in your post)
Main hose - MA111 018 15 82
Valve/Tee-Piece complete - MA111 010 00 91
2 small bore hoses - MA 002 094 01 82
2 Nozzles MA202 270 33 96

but the guy was not paying attention at all ..and he was like.. o the technician knows what he is doing at our garage ... lets see what they tell me at 12 now...

I am thinking now that i have done a mistake taking it to dealer today, but i was just wanting the dealer to check as they did fix the problem but didnt cure the reason for it last time thats why it has happened again...and they should hv cured the cause last time ...

I cant argue empty stomach ... so probably will argue with them after lunch when he calls to explain his findings about the problem

 

[Balal]

An Update:

Went to merc garage in evening, and I was shown this sheet and was told that this is what needs to be done... and it MIIIIIIIGHT solve problem!!!

This is copy of their work sheet or guide, scanned it using my hand held.

"
M111 EVO fault code P2008(4):82/5 Hot Film
mass air flow sensor (HFM)(HFM-SFT))
plausibility error of mass air flow
sensor/throttle valve

M111 EVO (model designation
111.951/955/965/957/958/981/982/983

oiled-up HFM(HFM-SF) due to plugged or partialy closed nozzles of engine partial load ventilation.
Clean complete charge air system (engine oil collects in charge air cooler). Replace both partial load ventilation nozzles and the check valve. TO replace the partial load ventilation nozzles, the intake manifold must be removed.
Partial load ventilation nozzles(2 each) in cyclinder head:
A111 017 00 12 Check valve: A111 010 0091,
Hose lines if required (2 each): A002 094 0182. "

I dont understand what that says in start, but rest of things are what JIM said in his post as well.

Now I am roughly quoted a labor of about 4 hours .... so its nearly £400.... is this work worth that much ?!?! and this is just an estimate, full estimate will be given tomorrow , as i brought my car back today asking them to check it with my warranty company (warranty direct - lets hope they cover it now)...As even after doing all this car has to develop the fault again in 6 months, then its not really worth it, is it ?!? i might just sell it at a very low price and add the money I have to pay to buy a better spec clk ?! any suggestion ?!

jimsinessex - Is your power loss problem solved completly after replacing the parts mentioned above ? ?

 

[television]

An Update:

Went to merc garage in evening, and I was shown this sheet and was told that this is what needs to be done... and it MIIIIIIIGHT solve problem!!!

This is copy of their work sheet or guide, scanned it using my hand held.

"
M111 EVO fault code P2008(4):82/5 Hot Film
mass air flow sensor (HFM)(HFM-SFT))
plausibility error of mass air flow
sensor/throttle valve

M111 EVO (model designation
111.951/955/965/957/958/981/982/983

oiled-up HFM(HFM-SF) due to plugged or partialy closed nozzles of engine partial load ventilation.
Clean complete charge air system (engine oil collects in charge air cooler). Replace both partial load ventilation nozzles and the check valve. TO replace the partial load ventilation nozzles, the intake manifold must be removed.
Partial load ventilation nozzles(2 each) in cyclinder head:
A111 017 00 12 Check valve: A111 010 0091,
Hose lines if required (2 each): A002 094 0182. "

I dont understand what that says in start, but rest of things are what JIM said in his post as well.

Now I am roughly quoted a labor of about 4 hours .... so its nearly £400.... is this work worth that much ?!?! and this is just an estimate, full estimate will be given tomorrow , as i brought my car back today asking them to check it with my warranty company (warranty direct - lets hope they cover it now)...As even after doing all this car has to develop the fault again in 6 months, then its not really worth it, is it ?!? i might just sell it at a very low price and add the money I have to pay to buy a better spec clk ?! any suggestion ?!

jimsinessex - Is your power loss problem solved completly after replacing the parts mentioned above ? ?

What that means is that components have deviated from their stored memory.
It does not mean that MAF is faulty, this error is always thrown up on a diagnosis along with the throtle valve as these components try and compensate for the real fault, that is what I said at the start of this thread.
Like Jims car, I studied this problem and Emailed him the answer and what to do. I do have my doubts about this mod as a long term fix. If you wanted an indie to do it ,I could send you the instructions,

Malcolm

 

[Balal]

What that means is that components have deviated from their stored memory.
It does not mean that MAF is faulty, this error is always thrown up on a diagnosis along with the throtle valve as these components try and compensate for the real fault, that is what I said at the start of this thread.
Like Jims car, I studied this problem and Emailed him the answer and what to do. I do have my doubts about this mod as a long term fix. If you wanted an indie to do it ,I could send you the instructions,

Malcolm

Thanks Malcolm
It would be great if you can send me the instructions.

Also I would much appreciate if you can suggest some other checks/fixtures that I can get him to do, so to stop this problem occuring again and again.

Thanks again. Really appreciate your help.

Balal.

you can email me instructions on " s0239421@ee.ed.ac.uk " if thats easy.

 

[television]

Thanks Malcolm
It would be great if you can send me the instructions.

Also I would much appreciate if you can suggest some other checks/fixtures that I can get him to do, so to stop this problem occuring again and again.

Thanks again. Really appreciate your help.

Balal.

you can email me instructions on " s0239421@ee.ed.ac.uk " if thats easy.

I will try and do on Wed, but it is a hard couple of days coming up for me. short of moving the turbo to the top of the engine and fitting a cowel on the bonnet, though thinking I wonder if it is possible to re route the breathing or have a drain pipe in the system just before the MAF. maybe someone else can think on this one.

malcolm

 

[jimsinessex]

The loss of power is due to the MAF sensor getting oiled up, solution is to replace it or if you are lucky cleaning as per the detailed instructions posted at the head of this forum may cure the problem.

The cause of the MAF sensor oiling up is the root cause of the problem and the procedure I detailed cured it for me.

The two nozzles referred to above are the nozzles which are a press fit into the cylinder head, I am sure they can be unblocked by poking with a small drill, order the nozzles (they only cost pence) and use them to size the drill required. I DID renew the nozzles but only because the cylinder head was removed at the time to deal with a very slight bore to bore leakage that showed up on the compession test which was the first step of the investigation (to eliminate a worn engine as the cause of the oiling problem).

The main cause of my oiling was the blockage of the valve and hoses under the intake manifold and I think 3 to 4 hrs labour should be more than adequate for that, the cyl head should not need to be removed if the nozzles can be poked through.

I have the utmost regard for Television's expertise and helpfulness but in this case the references he sent me were not relevant. They were to do with a problem concerning the vacuum system which turned out to supply the brake servo. I do agree that the wording MB used on the references could suggest it was connected to our problem but in the end it had nothing to do with it.

In the long term I think it is something we have to deal with after a high mileage and can think of no mods that would prevent this. In my case looking back, the first signs were there with a MAF failure at about 70,000 miles. Replaced by MB Stealer (with what I know now cleaning may have been sufficient) then misfiring at 140,000 miles, cleaning the MAF did the trick. That is when I found the oil in air intake problem and finally sorted that out, as above at 145,000 miles. Now, at 151,000 miles there is no sign of oil at all.

If this means replacing the crankcase emissions bits and pieces every 70,000 miles or so then so be it.

I firmly believe the Throttle Body is a Stealership red herring in all this.

I suggest you order all the parts, go an Indie, tell him to remove the inlet manifold, poke out the nozzles, renew the hoses and valve and replace the inlet manifold. Also clean out the Compressor Air Cooler and clean the MAF sensor. I am certain that will sort the problem.

Do get back to me if you require any more detail.

Jim

 

[Balal]

Thanks Television and Jim.
from the posts above, I have got a picture of what is happening to the engine now....waiting for dealer to check it with my warranty company to see if they cover these repairs.

here is a list of what they say is covered in engine parts,


"Engine
cylinder head,internal bushings, oil pump, crankshaft and bearings, tappet gear, valves and guides, pisons and rings, cylinder bores/liners,con rods, distributor drive,started ring gear, flywheels, autodrive plate,camshaft drive belts,camshaft and cam followers,cylinder head gasket,turbo/intercoler units,rocker assembly;push rode;timing gear;timing belts and chains."

any thoughts if this work comes under any of listed parts above ?!

 

[jimsinessex]

That sounds hopeful to me, the only doubt is whether a blockage is covered instead of a breakage. The nozzles are certainly part of the cylinder head and even if they argue about replacing the valve and hoses all the labour is covered anyway in gaining access to the nozzles. The extra cost of those parts is relatively small. It does look as though your dealer expects to be able to change the nozzles without removing the head so that is a bonus.

I believe the hoses and valve are the main culprits but if the nozzles, as part of the cylinder head, swings it with your insurers then that is a result as it covers the labour. The hoses and valve are probably counted as part of the crankcase which is not listed as being covered but DO make sure they are renewed while access is available even if you have to pay for the parts.

They have only listed the hoses (2 off) which fit between the valve and the nozzles. The hose from the integral crankcase oil separator to the valve should be changed as well, part no. A111 018 15 82. The total cost of ALL the parts is only about £20 inc VAT. It is the labour that hurts.
In my case some of the parts had to come from Germany so make sure parts are obtained before work starts.

I see they include cleaning the air cooler so that is helpful as well.

Good luck, Jim

 

[Balal]

more bad news....

i brought the car back from dealer yesterday, this morning i took it to university ... and on way back now... it was smelling of petrol... and when i reached home... i had petrol dripping from the engine.... i took the pictures so someone can advise me whats happening ,,,,,

can it be something tht dealer forgot to screw properly when they opened it for diagnostics yesterday ??? ...

 

[G MAN]

Jeepers Balal that's not right I'd get on to them NOW to get round to you & sort it out before it catches fire it's inevitably down to their handiwork!!

 

[Balal]

will have to wait till 8:00 tomorrow morning when they open!