lpg CONVERSION

[frank133]

Hi guys haven't been on the forum for a bit,
I know a lot of people do not like the idea of converting to lpg.
But I am taking the plunge,I have purchased a complete kit and intend to install myself.
The car is a 1990 2ltr 190e Sportline auto,if anyone has any photos of the install in this type of vehicle I would appreciate them,
My last 190 I used for twelve years,and I wish I had converted that.
one of the reasons this Sportline has aircon and uses more fuel when it is on.The other reason is longer trips in between fill ups,when there is a hint of a fuel strike people start panicking plus the tax on petrol is criminal.
I don't want a smaller car,and I can run on either fuel when the situation demands,if anyone can help thanks

 

[Telegraph-Hill]

Hi,
I may want to do the same with my M103 (you're having the M102 4 cylinder I guess.) As your car also have the KE Jetronic installed you need to switch it of with a signal called KE Stop. The signal (just a minus i think) can be sent to the Fuel Pump relais. But I have to look again into the manual.

Did you talk to a Gas specialized workshop before? You need a certificate after you have done the conversion to be sure the system does not leak. Most insurance Companies also want to see the certificate. This is all of my theoretic knowledge.

If you have more information after you finished, please fee free to provide us with more detailed information
Greez,
Oli

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
The gas installation does apparently needs certifiying.
Does,nt it also give you a reduction in road tax too?

 

[frank133]

Yes lads the completed install will need cerifiying,I bought the kit from a firm in Cambridge who was recommended ,they supply the individual kit to suit your car.I am fitting the dognut tank and filler today.
You also have to make a drivers manual ,basically of all the parts that you have fitted
before anyone will certify the car ,I am making a folder with photo and written specifecations.I plan on doing a photo record of the install to help anyone in the future

 

[hairyg]

No reduction in Road Tax sadly, but fuel bills roughly halved is much more significant if you do enough miles.

The pressure relief setup on the fuel tank is critical. Get it wrong and you will driving a BOMB. People have been killed by bad conversions. A Range Rover tailgate flew 150 metres across a Paris street, killing a firefighter as it went!

I have been told that 30 litres of LPG would fill over a mile of the Channel Tunnel with flame.

If the conversion is certified by an approved installer you should have no problems with insurance.

Certainly dual fuel capability is handy when there are shortages and queues.

European touring is fine but you will need a filler adaptor for some countries, France and Italy certainly and probably others I haven't yet tried.

Richard

 

[frank133]

Hi Richard,I think lpg conversions are a lot safer now, this one I have has three solenoids to get past before the gas can escape,the tank is bullet proof,heavy anough anyway.
I believe if the tank was involved in a car fire it would vent off through the pressure valve and just have a steady flame,{like a massive cigarette lighter]
I will document my progress on the install, it might help somone ine the future,
I know you cant use the channel tunnel with lpg ,but I have heard they are reviewing it.
over six hundred miles without refueling has got to be worth a try lol cheers

 

[A210AMG]

600 miles,


is that 400 with petrol and 200 on gas, as most donut tanks hold at max 60L and I'm aware you cannot 'fill' to 60 litres.

The idea of running on gas would be to hardly ever use petrol (only for start up?) and then saving each time. If you find a local farm or industrial estate you should be able to buy LPG even cheaper.

I've considered it for my ML, I get 25 to 28 mpg on a run and ths would mean 40mpg equivalent on gas I ust don't do the miles to warrant it.

Dad had it years ago in a C200 auto estate, the conversions are a LOT better now.

 

[hairyg]

Exploding LPG tanks are invariably the ones without a pressure relief valve. Cut price converters have been known to leave them off to save a few quid. It does still happen, even in this country.

Talking about saving a few quid, tonights quote for crossing the Channel with the SL and 2 people: cheapest ferry £36, Channel Tunnel £248. The Chunnel only saves a few miles driving at best and you can buy quite a lot of fuel for £200 even at today's prices.

I'm really not worried about the Chunnel. I'm also not worried about using LPG, I think it is a great fuel, clean and safe. Like any other combustible fuel it needs to be handled properly. If you want a really hairy fuel have a look at what can happen with methanol. Now that is scary, fuel that burns invisibly.

I hope the conversion goes well, you seem to have all the bases covered.

Richard

 

[frank133]

Thanks Richard, I have been looking into it quite a lot before I decided to go for it.
I didn't want a diesel I am doing the install correctly and just taking my time.I am also doing a photo document of every part fitted and any problems I come across,
It might be of use to somone in the future who wants to try LPG,
So far I have fitted the tank and the filler,the filler is located behind the electricaly operated fold down registration plate,

 

[frank133]

600 miles,


is that 400 with petrol and 200 on gas, as most donut tanks hold at max 60L and I'm aware you cannot 'fill' to 60 litres.

The idea of running on gas would be to hardly ever use petrol (only for start up?) and then saving each time. If you find a local farm or industrial estate you should be able to buy LPG even cheaper.

I've considered it for my ML, I get 25 to 28 mpg on a run and ths would mean 40mpg equivalent on gas I ust don't do the miles to warrant it.

Dad had it years ago in a C200 auto estate, the conversions are a LOT better now.

Hi I think I would get more than 200 miles on a tank of LPG ,you are correct that this donut tank is a sixty ltr ,so will only fill to fifty four ltrs of gas,I honestly havent clue of what the mpg will be on LPG,but a few people who have LPG say its a fifty % fuel saving,I dont intend to use petrol at all after start up
so intend running mainly on LPG,hopefully it works out okay,
There isn't a lot of information on the running with LPG,a few people have tried to put me off,but it is only what they have heard about LPG.
and probably in the past the equipment wasnt as good,will keep you posted

 

[davidsl500]

From what I have read, the mpg on LPG varies depending on the sophistication of the kit and the condition of the engine - especially the electrics so plug leads, spark plugs etc., must be in tip top condition and maintained so.

Reports I have read tend to suggest 70%-90% of Petrol MPG so I would be interested in actual real user experiences. (no, the SL isn't going lpg !)

 

[hairyg]

I get about 90% of petrol MPG with a very sophisticated LPG setup, individual injectors for each cylinder rather like a common rail diesel.

The maker is Prins Autogassystemen BV (www.prins-lpg.com) in Holland.

There is no way I can tell which fuel the engine is burning without checking the indicator lights, the feel of the car is completly unaffected by the conversion.

I have talked to Nicholson-Maclaren about their system which also looks very good and has been used in the BTCC. I couldn't find a local converter and wasn't prepared to do it myself.

A neighbour remembers when LPG conversion consisted of putting a CalorGas cylinder in the boot and fixing a pipe to the carburettor. Many air cleaners were sent into orbit by backfires. That was more than 30 years ago, but the memory persists

 

[A210AMG]

Hello

Yes thats why with my car doing 25 to 28 mpg on fuel I reckon I would work on 40mpg on gas and that would be great

a 60 Litre donut tank in my dads C200 Auto several years ago did approx 200 miles on a tank as you cannot fill the tank, his had a little led light with 4 lights basically each light was 50 miles.

If you want a bigger range you tend to have to fit a 95 / 100 l tank in the boot, or with jeeps under the car.

I think you range on gas will be 200 miles difference is it will be a lot less to fill.

 

[frank133]

Hi no its not for the range, the six hundred miles range I mentioned was purely a example of what I maybe could achieve ? I dont really do a lot of mileage now,
The 60ltr tank is well big enough for my needs, anything bigger would be to heavy,
I have connected the tank to the filler, so the backend is finished. I just have to bolt a few bits on the engine, and run the fuel line under the car,with some wiring as well
might be on gas next week,

 

[frank133]

Well guys nearly there,I have come across a few problems not covered in the fitting instruction's have kept a photographic log of the install,it might be of help to someone, considering the installment of LPG.A few wires to connect and off to the garage to fill up with gas.It has been a challenge but I am getting there.

 

[A210AMG]

Great news...

Does the install have to be approved? or do you fit it and fill up??

 

[frank133]

Great news...

Does the install have to be approved? or do you fit it and fill up??

Yes the install has to be certified, Swansea, and your insurance have to be notified.I am looking forward to going to the garage,[for once]
It has been a challange fitting the kit.
I had a few problems but managed to solve them,a few wires to connect and I should be okay.anyone who needs info on a diy LPG install I will be glad to help.

 

[Zanimat]

Good luck, Frank.....hope you get the certificate OK. I converted a 1.8 Carlton estate and a 2 litre Peugeot 405 estate to LPG some 6 or 7 years ago (both autos). They were both very successful, especially the Pug, as it had a lambda controlled demand valve fitted in the pipe between the regulator & the intake. On petrol it did about 28mpg & about 23 on gas, which equated to about 50mpg on a cost basis (I was paying about 36p/litre in those good old days!)
There was very little difference in the running, though the Pug lost a small amount of top-end performance. But I went down to Devon for Xmas in it & it never missed a beat on those hills.
The only problem I encountered was that the ECU used to go off in a sulk when I'd been running on gas, even though there was an injector emulator fitted. That meant it wouldn't run very well when I changed over to petrol (which wasn't often). I could cure it by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes - maybe not ideal these days! You may not manage to get 54 litres in the tank - it seems to vary from station to station and ambient temperature.
There's a lot of nonsense talked about the explosive aspect IMHO; just take a look at the way the two fuels are stored! I reckon you can cut a petrol tank open with a good pair of scissors! I realise the LPG is under pressure, but the tank is far less likely to rupture and only a prolonged fire situation would explode it. But where would such a fire get its fuel???
Good idea to have an LPG sticker on the window, though, so emergency services know what they're dealing with.

 

[hairyg]

There was very little difference in the running, though the Pug lost a small amount of top-end performance. But I went down to Devon for Xmas in it & it never missed a beat on those hills.
The only problem I encountered was that the ECU used to go off in a sulk when I'd been running on gas, even though there was an injector emulator fitted. .

I usd to get the same problem on my C class with the Landi system but the Prins system I have on the SL is fine.

If I am reading the manual correctly the Prins system uses the output from the original ECU and re-maps the data to control the gas injectors. Older systems overrode the petrol ECU which tried to adjust emmissions with larger and larger inputs which had no effect. When you switch back to petrol it takes a while for the ECU to get back to a reasonable fuel/air mixture.

I logged one MOT failure due to this, drove the car for 30 miles on petrol and resubmitted succesfully.

The last MOT on the SL measured emmissions on LPG and recorded CO at 0.04%. well inside the 12% limit

 

[ernieh]

EXploding LPG

"I realise the LPG is under pressure, but the tank is far less likely to rupture and only a prolonged fire situation would explode it. But where would such a fire get its fuel???"

After the explosion, there is no fuel, no tank, no car......etc.

Seriously, having worked in the industry for 40 odd years, my advice is don't underestimate the dangers of an LPG explosion!!

Ernie