Merc Gearboxes

[shj]

Just wondering,do Merc manufacture their own gearboxes or are they made by another manufactorer eg Chrysler, but branded MB.

 

[television]

They have made their own at least from the 100 series start, the other large firms like ZF and Borg Warner are the only other Europe manufactured boxes

 

[eric242340]

The largest (outside) supplier of Mercedes Benz Transmissions, over the years, has been ZF. No reflection on ZF, because they build to mercedes specification but these have been the most troubled transmissions. Interesting to note that ZF have also been a big supplier of BMW Trannies and the problems were far less. I guess BMW demanded a different level of accuracy and reliability for which they paid a higher price? Most transmission problems today, and im talking the S Class 140 and 220 range, seem to be torque related. If I can explain better, these transmissions work great with the smaller engines but not with the bigger engines. Hope this helps.

 

[television]

My answer still stands eric.

It does not matter who built it, MB use their own gear boxes, I have never seen any reference to anyone wanting spare parts saying "oh yes, you can use xxx from a ZF box". Only when that day comes along can you say that is a ZF gearbox labled MB

Re BMW, Problems ? please visit any forum and it will open your eyes.

Re problems with the tranies on big or small cars.

I have never seen any more problems occuring on the AMG cars, than any other car in the range.

 

[eric242340]

My answer still stands eric.

It does not matter who built it, MB use their own gear boxes, I have never seen any reference to anyone wanting spare parts saying "oh yes, you can use xxx from a ZF box". Only when that day comes along can you say that is a ZF gearbox labled MB

Re BMW, Problems ? please visit any forum and it will open your eyes.

Re problems with the tranies on big or small cars.

I have never seen any more problems occuring on the AMG cars, than any other car in the range.

Malcolm, I will not be drawn into a silly argument here. ZF do for benz as Bosch do, They are both OEM. You have an SL500, look at your transmission number and Im sure you will find its a ZF box

 

[television]

Malcolm, I will not be drawn into a silly argument here. ZF do for benz as Bosch do, They are both OEM. You have an SL500, look at your transmission number and Im sure you will find its a ZF box

Well I thought that for years and I got shouted down, I have thought it strange that the ZF 7 gear boxes in the BM's had the same spec as the 7g,

As I said I got shouted down on it, but it would seem odd with the biggest gearbox manufacture on their door step to do other wise.

The ZF manual gearboxes that were in the Alvis TE and F's that I had were a delight to use, and I will leave it here too eric.

 

[shj]

Thanks guys,so whats the answer?

 

[eric242340]

Well I thought that for years and I got shouted down, I have thought it strange that the ZF 7 gear boxes in the BM's had the same spec as the 7g,

As I said I got shouted down on it, but it would seem odd with the biggest gearbox manufacture on their door step to do other wise.

The ZF manual gearboxes that were in the Alvis TE and F's that I had were a delight to use, and I will leave it here too eric.

Alvis I remember well, but the point im trying to make is that Manufacturers demands are not always what suppliers can achieve and the 722.5 box was a big bone of contention. Ive already said that ZF boxes work very well in so many cars. But if you have to cut corners to meet the customers needs, at the price they dictate, then of course problems will ensue. And this is, in no way, a bad remark on ZF. They make damed good boxes for BMW.

 

[television]

If eric is happy on this, then we say that ZF make them for MB to MB's specification, the chances are that the are the same casings that BMW and every one else use, the software is up to the car maker on what they want it to do.

If you read all of the answers you will be somewhere near right, other than that I will find my 12 bore, and I am sure that eric will provide the amunition, where do you live shj

 

[television]

Alvis I remember well, but the point im trying to make is that Manufacturers demands are not always what suppliers can achieve and the 722.5 box was a big bone of contention. Ive already said that ZF boxes work very well in so many cars. But if you have to cut corners to meet the customers needs, at the price they dictate, then of course problems will ensue. And this is, in no way, a bad remark on ZF. They make damed good boxes for BMW.

I do not think the boxes are that bad eric, when you consider the amount of cars running around.
Yes the attempt to convert a 4 speed into a 5 was not the best of ideas, still that was not too bad

 

[eric242340]

I do not think the boxes are that bad eric, when you consider the amount of cars running around.
Yes the attempt to convert a 4 speed into a 5 was not the best of ideas, still that was not too bad

Ive tried to point out the fact that ZF make good boxes, both auto and manual. But the boxes supplied to MB were dictated by MB (pricing ect) and thats where it whent wrong. They are not at all bad but they do have their weak points.b

 

[television]

Ive tried to point out the fact that ZF make good boxes, both auto and manual. But the boxes supplied to MB were dictated by MB (pricing ect) and thats where it whent wrong. They are not at all bad but they do have their weak points.b

How can price dictate any reliability issues, if they are all the same parts, whats different

 

[shj]

Malcom & Eric thanks,that was interesting,I live in the North Cotswolds,good shooting country as it happens,I get the feeling that the mention of shooting is going to start a whole new topic

 

[shj]

Surely not all the parts are identical,Merc in trying to cut costs may wish to cut corners on material quality and tolerances.The part may look the same but it is not.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I'm not sure it would be cheaper for a gearbox manufacturer to start machining new parts for a gearbox they already build, in order to save money for the buyer?

 

[kth286]

shi

Just wondered what the reason for the question was.

Had my car for 4.5 years now (it's my daily driver) and I think the gearbox is hugely impressive - 4 speed auto 722.3.

Changes are fast and smooth, and kickdown good, but 1 sec delay is annoying, so have got into the habit of flicking the lever back to 3rd ready to overtake when I feel an opportunity is coming, then whooooosh and away - excellent.

The 1 sec delay seems magnified because there is nothing for the driver to do except wait for the changedown to happen. Compared to a manual car it is probably a quicker gearchange in fact, but just seems slow. In a manual car you are working on the clutch, and moving the lever, so there is plenty of physical action going on, but it probably all takes longer than 1 sec I would suggest.,

 

[television]

I'm not sure it would be cheaper for a gearbox manufacturer to start machining new parts for a gearbox they already build, in order to save money for the buyer?

This is my point, they are all the same bits, and it would cost more to make something not as good, there is no such thing as a cheap build, MB say how many they want, ZF give the price and thats the end of it, and I still say that there is nothing wrong with the build quality with MB boxes.

With anything thats made there will always be the odd one that plays up, no matter what it is. You cant go to the doctor and say please check me over as I am off on holiday and make sure nothing goes wrong, than any of us do in the morning when we put our keys into the ign, most cars will start, but the odd one will not somewhere in the world, thats life. Some folk in the world are going to turn their TV on this eve, some will not come on, no matter who made the thing.

Anyway when I look at the build of my SL, it is a work of art, all of it, and I have all of the rear out today fitting a DAB tuner.

 

[television]

shi

Just wondered what the reason for the question was.

Had my car for 4.5 years now (it's my daily driver) and I think the gearbox is hugely impressive - 4 speed auto 722.3.

Changes are fast and smooth, and kickdown good, but 1 sec delay is annoying, so have got into the habit of flicking the lever back to 3rd ready to overtake when I feel an opportunity is coming, then whooooosh and away - excellent.

The 1 sec delay seems magnified because there is nothing for the driver to do except wait for the changedown to happen. Compared to a manual car it is probably a quicker gearchange in fact, but just seems slow. In a manual car you are working on the clutch, and moving the lever, so there is plenty of physical action going on, but it probably all takes longer than 1 sec I would suggest.,

Like you Kieth, I have nothing but praise for the boxes hear say is a damaging thing without proof

 

[television]

Malcom & Eric thanks,that was interesting,I live in the North Cotswolds,good shooting country as it happens,I get the feeling that the mention of shooting is going to start a whole new topic

We save the shooting for the bad guys,not you Simon

 

[shj]

The reason for the question was, that in my opinion, the Merc autobox on my car is the sweetest gearbox I have come accross,I know RR used Chrysler boxes as they felt they were the best,Malcom will know better than me.
On my car sometimes I am not even aware of the change,particulaly when you feather the throttle