Mercedes Rust And The Uk Warranty!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Theo Cupier]

Can someone help me with this a little.

I have an 02 registered C Class Sports Coupe which is showing signs of rust around all 4 wheel arches. The rust is clearly coming from the inside out - and the chap at my local MB dealer agreed that it wasn't due to scratches or dings in the paintwork. He ran the paint thickness monitor all around it and was happy with what he saw.

The vehicle has 5+ years MBSH and then the previous owner got 2 services done at a private garage. I bought the car 2 months ago.

I've just had my claim for rust repair rejected by MB UK on the grounds that there is only a 3 year warranty "on these vehicles" and that anything else is strictly a "good will gesture".

Since I have only very recently bought the vehicle, MB consider that the price I paid would have included an adjustment for the presence of rust and hence I am not due any goodwill from MB. They will not help me out.

They have flat out stated that there is no warranty beyond 3 years for rust (or anything else, by inference) on my vehicle which seems completely against what is being said in this thread (and elsewhere).

They say that this is the information they have received from MB UK in Milton Keynes and have given me the switchboard number for MK so I can confirm it with them. They won't let me see the correspondence from head office.

How valid is their statement? What should I do next?

Incidentally, this is Hughes of Beaconsfield and their in-house body shop who were handling this. They did something similar to my in-laws S-plate E class - flat out denied any liability - my in-laws contacted MB in Germany and got the whole thing sorted (through a very grudging Hughes).

Before I go wading in down the same path, is this valid in my case?

What should I do? I have seen a lot of comments that one should just keep trying different MB dealers until you find one that agrees, but if this decision has come down from UK Head Office, what chance do I have?

 

[parvez78]

I have a 99 registered W202 C-class with rust appearing around the bootlock and one of the wheel arches plus front passenger door.
I've been to my local MB direct (park royal) and the chap took all the pictures and did the thickness test. He seemed to agree that the rust was coming from the inside out but said the chances of getting a claim is abit hit and miss.
Anyway i had the call yesterday where the lady told me that because my car is over 8 years old that its not covered and besides they've never had a claim on the anti perforation warranty as the rust NEVER occurs inside out! I tried to explain that i've read online about other owners experiences and that its common problem but she was very rude and curt lady, she wouldnt even entertain it. She then fobbed me off with DCUK phone number, who i called but they told me that they don't deal with Mercedes direct and i would have to call their HQ directly! (which i did but they said i have to call the Park royal office!) Talk about being passed around the houses!!

My question is can i do anything further? Who can i speak to about this?

 

[peredur]

Ho-hum. I have rust as well. V reg E320 estate. Does anyone know where I could find a list of MB-approved body shops?

I am gutted. I drove a G reg Audi 100 Avant for 8 years. I was as clean as a whistle with regard to rust. The auto gearbox went on it a year and a half ago. I needed something big and beefy to pull a heavy caravan. Can't go wrong with a Merc I thought. Disappointingly, I was wrong

TIA

 

[jberks]

they've never had a claim on the anti perforation warranty as the rust NEVER occurs inside out!
My question is can i do anything further? Who can i speak to about this?

Interesting. It confirms what I've always said from the start. People have always believed that the rust repairs were done under the 8/30 year anti perforation warranty. I've always contested that this was actually to cover for corrosion from the inside out - the type of thing that cars used to do in the 80's where the bottom of the door skins would rust through and drop off after 6-7 years and that the rust repairs were actually a goodwill thing.
MBs have never rusted through, as far as I know so her point is right. They probably never have had a claim. Surface rust, even when it comes out from under undamaged paint, technically isn't a perforation and isn't covered, but as MB used to fix them without argument, people incorrectly linked the 2. Given that they effectively erradiacted the problem 5 years ago, I was wondering how long they would continue to do this and now we seem to have our answer.
I dare say that if you had bought a car, say in 2001 and were a regular dealer customer you probably wouldn't have a problem as they'd continue to support you, but, whilst it's not nice, I suppose you buy an 8/9 year old used car, you really you can't expect the manufacturer to deal with you in the same way as the new/newsed buyer who regularly uses their dealership network and returns every 3-5 years for a replacement. Given that the majority of such people now have post 04 cars I guess this is why they are tightening up.

You can appeal but I suspect they've made a policy decision and that's that. At the end of the day I assume you did adjust the price of the car accordingly so either you paid more assuming MB would sort it for you (lesson learned - you should have included it as a condition of sale and had them arrange the repair) or effectively, as MB claim, you have actually had the work paid for by the seller as a discount already so why should they pay too?

I'd find a decent bodyshop, get it sorted and chalk it up to experience.

 

[EGBM]

Even if you manage to get MB to do it it's hit and miss what state your car will come back in. We had an as-sold damaged boot lid (only noticed after purchase) which MB repaired but it wasn't till I next washed the car that I noticed the hideous amount of overspray the bodyshop had made. We then spent our own money getting it put right.

best of luck to all getting work done at MB's cost, I hope you get a good repair.

 

[parvez78]

Thanks to all for their helpful pointers..
I decided to email MB Customer services with my complaint and this is what i've received so far...

Dear Mr xxxxxxx

Mercedes-Benz Model: C-Class

Thank you for your recent letter, which was received at this office on 24th October 2008.

Further to your correspondence with my colleague regarding paintwork investigation, we are extremely sorry that your experience of Mercedes-Benz has not met your expectations. In view of your concerns, we have opened a case file in order to investigate further, however to investigate thoroughly we would be grateful if you could forward the following details:

- your vehicles VIN (or chassis) and registration numbers
- the name and address of the Mercedes-Benz dealership you contacted for the paint investigation

On receipt of these details we will contact the dealership concerned and look into this matter with them. This process can take up to ten working days, and we would ask for your patience in this time as we review the details of the matter.

Please be assured that your comments have been noted here, and that we will write to you again when we are satisfied that we have addressed the issues you have raised with us appropriately.

Yours sincerely

Kathryn Martindale
Customer Service
Mercedes-Benz Customer Assistance Center Maastricht N.V.


Lets see what comes of this...

 

[peredur]

Any further news here? Did you contact customer services in the UK? The address at the end of your email suggests that the answer came from further afield.

Thanks to all for their helpful pointers..
I decided to email MB Customer services with my complaint and this is what i've received so far...


Kathryn Martindale
Customer Service
Mercedes-Benz Customer Assistance Center Maastricht N.V.


Lets see what comes of this...

 

[parvez78]

I got a call last friday and they wont budge on their decision.. oh well i tried!
Time to find a decent bodyshop

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Karl Benz would not have approved!

I had a W202 estate which suffered rust around the tailgate lock and the offside front wing. It was repaired foc with no quibble. The car had a full service history, latterly by an Indy.

I guess if we go back to the reason for this problem, which seems to reside in the Daimler Chrysler era, it is clear that there will be lots of similar examples. I think we had all surmised that the good will would be finite for this problem but, surely rusting of this sort in the absence of surface damage or any evidence of a previous repair at that site signifies a fault in manufacture?

I understand the debate about whether or not rust was perforating, but given the MB Brand, their much vaunted warranty (which they liberally use as a lever to convince owners to have servicing done by franchises) and the sort of precedent which abounds, there would seem to be a cause for action here. Are MB just betting on the probability that someone with an 8 year old car probably either can't afford to take legal redress, or will not take the trouble?

Either way, whilst I can understand the economics of their decision, it is not consonant with their brand, the premium prices they charge, "I am Mercedes Benz", etc.

I now have cars from before and after the Daimler Chrysler era and there is no rust on them. MB made bad business decisions, but against the ethos of Karl Benz, I would have thought they could do better for their customers, albeit that it will be painful for them.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Just a quick reply to JBERKS post regarding second hand rusty mercs.. first and foremost it is hard to think of another make of car at 7 or 8 yrs old that is as rusty as a merc. second point .. if the buyers of 5,6,7 or 8 yr old mercs are not going to buy a merc because of rust problems then the cars as such become worthless ..so it is in the interests of the manufacturer , especially an expensive prestigious car to ensure it has a long life.. as for rust from the inside out..if it comes from under the paint then the paint process must be at fault ...

 

[parvez78]

Totally agree with what you said...

 

[jberks]

Just a quick reply to JBERKS post regarding second hand rusty mercs.. first and foremost it is hard to think of another make of car at 7 or 8 yrs old that is as rusty as a merc. second point .. if the buyers of 5,6,7 or 8 yr old mercs are not going to buy a merc because of rust problems then the cars as such become worthless ..so it is in the interests of the manufacturer , especially an expensive prestigious car to ensure it has a long life.. as for rust from the inside out..if it comes from under the paint then the paint process must be at fault ...

Let me attempt devils advocate ......
Yes, I agree it is the paint process, and lack of galvanisation, that caused this issue. But, technically it isn't rust from the inside so isn't covered. We can argue as to whether it should be included but the fact is that under the terms of the warranty, it isn't.
As for 6+yr old mercs becoming worthless, there is a huge difference between buying a nice shiny car for 20k and unexpectedly finding rust 6 months later (where, to be fair, MB did fix them), and buying a rusty car for a price that reflects it's rusty condition and then expecting the manufacturer to fork out for repair. This is where MB are making the distinction. So, if you'd had it for the last 3 years and so could reasonably say you didn't expect the rust, I suspect they'd have sorted it for you but if you buy it in that condition they assume you have the sense to look at it and say, a nice nick one would be worth £x but I'm knocking £y off for the rust. Hence, from MB's perspective, you've already been paid for the repair. Lets be honest, they have a point.

Also, on the 'worthless' point, we must remember that many, possibly most, remain clean and rust free to this day, or else, like my 2000 E class, had a few issues that MB fixed several years ago and never returned so to all effects is a rust free model. Take this one for example.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-MERCEDES...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:2|39:1|240:1318
Hardly a loved example, built during the bad times, but but oddly, still not a tea bag. All the panels appear sound and no holes anywhere. Hence, these are still worth the money.

It still doesn't excuse the MB from the mess they created but I think they take the view that they did the honourable thing and protected those people who were unfairly burned but those who knew exactly what was happening should really protect themselves. After all, the golden rule applies, buyer beware.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Yes JB point taken and appreciated and cant argue with it.. but it makes for lively discussion.. I would hope that dealers would take the common sense approach when dealing with claims.. Personally i think there will now be less claims allowed due to the present economic climate..

 

[television]

Thank you Jberks for that, and one can only agree, there are always people trying to pull a fast one in any trade.

The odd thing is that the last 2 x 210s that I did work on were mint and as new, and this is a seaside town

 

[stevefielduk]

i have been reading this thread with interest - as i have exactly the same problems as parvez78 - and have had almost exactly the same response from MB (almost word for word - must be a script they give to there cust serv team!).

the irony for me is i sold my beloved Alfa Romeo (with no rust!) and bought a w202 c class estate sport with rust on both drivers wings and the boot lid!

i have just been told by MB that i would need to now sue them to try and get it done by them - even though the warranty details i have in the manual state bodywork and under body are covered!


time to get the spary paint out and get fixing - then sell it and buy a decent car from another manufactorer!!
Steve

 

[jberks]

- even though the warranty details i have in the manual state bodywork and under body are covered!
Steve

Steve, Have another read of your warranty - that ISN'T what it says. From memory "Rusting through from the inside" - termed by many as an "anti-perforation" warranty. Your car is not perforated - merely rusty.

bought a w202 c class estate sport with rust on both drivers wings and the boot lid!

So you bought it rusty, expecting MB to sort it all out for you FOC only to find they wouldn't. All I can say is read my previous post. I assume the seller told you, not to worry - MB will sort it. He lied - hardly MB's fault. You were conned but not by MB. If someone promise me that someone else will do something - I always insist that responsibility remains with the first party - always. Anything else commonly ends in tears.

 

[stevefielduk]

Steve, Have another read of your warranty - that ISN'T what it says. From memory "Rusting through from the inside" - termed by many as an "anti-perforation" warranty. Your car is not perforated - merely rusty.

jberks - i have a little experience in this area, as does the authorised mercedes repairer who looked at car - primer on the inside lip where it has not been painted properly is manufactoring fault!

So you bought it rusty, expecting MB to sort it all out for you FOC only to find they wouldn't. All I can say is read my previous post. I assume the seller told you, not to worry - MB will sort it. He lied - hardly MB's fault. You were conned but not by MB. If someone promise me that someone else will do something - I always insist that responsibility remains with the first party - always. Anything else commonly ends in tears.

So you were there when i bought the car - you could have offered to pay! Don't comment on what you do not know!

I did not buy the car expecting MB to fix it for free, i did not know at the time the warranty existed. i was not conned, no-one promised anything - and i am not in tears. I am just a little surprised by MB's attitude.
Steve

 

[jberks]

jberks - i have a little experience in this area, as does the authorised mercedes repairer who looked at car - primer on the inside lip where it has not been painted properly is manufactoring fault!




So you were there when i bought the car - you could have offered to pay! Don't comment on what you do not know!

I did not buy the car expecting MB to fix it for free, i did not know at the time the warranty existed. i was not conned, no-one promised anything - and i am not in tears. I am just a little surprised by MB's attitude.
Steve

I don't want to get into a row but I will make a few points.
Firstly, I assume that the car is 6-8 years old? Assming the priming was that bad, it would be a real mess by now, if not corroded right through. I suspect the true cause was what most suffered from - namely minute corrosion being painted and sealed in and taking a few years to come through. Even then, it should have come through long before now (remember I had a 2000 W210 so know all about MB corrosion!). Mine had been fixed 3-4 times by the time it was 4 years old.

Now ok, I take your point. We've had lots of people who have been promised that MB would sort it and paid full whack on that basis only to be turned down. Applolgies if that doesn't apply to you. However, this implies that you bought it knowing about the corrosion and adjusting the price accordingly (you sound intelligent so I can't imagine you paying A1 prices for a rusty car). My point was simply that MB's view is the same. In effect the work has already been paid for.

The other thing is that the 30yr warranty simply doesn't cover this issue. We can argue whether it should be,but it isn't and never has been. So, you are relying on MB having goodwill towards you. To put it another way, you're asking tham for a favour. They are a business like any other so are always going to ask, "what's in it for me?" . Sadly, this boils down to whether they and the dealerships think you're a long term customer they should keep happy. Clearly folk who are lucky enough to buy new cars will come at the top of that list. People like me who scrape in to buy 12-18 month old cars (ex demos) from dealerships come next. We are still buying from MBUK in many cases (demo cars are often mbuk fleet cars) and can be expected to use the dealerships. Next come buyers of 3yrs + cars - who may still buy from and use dealers. When cars get to 6+, dealers don't sell them and buyers won't be using dealerships so this is where they naturally draw the line. I didn't say it was fair, but it is business.

 

[shiny]

Hi,

I have had exactly the same problem on my CDI 270 ESTATE as this. How can I get the MB paint record to prove the paint is thick because they painted it twice around the rear panels?

Thanks

 

[incartek]

Mercedes were trying to get out of paying for rust on one of four wings.

I wrote to Mercedes saying that I understood that extra coats were often applied in the factory - something that I had gleaned from this forum.

They backed down immediately.