More ****** rust.

[bacoms]

I'd appreciate views on how best to tackle the latest rust problem on my car.

In November 2007 my local MB dealer authorised its local authorised body repair shop to fix the rust under the door seals, tailgate and front crossmember.

I pointed out to them at the time that the bottom trailing corner of the driver's door was showing signs of rust both on the inside and the outside. I felt that this was caused by rust creeping through from the inside cavity. However the dealer was adamant that this was caused by the door hitting something at some time when it was being opened. I queried this as there was no evidence of any damage and I felt it didn't explain the rust on the inside of the door. The dealer's explanation was that it had crept round from the outside. Not being an expert on rust on cars, I accepted this.

When I got the car back from the spray shop I noticed that this corner of the driver's door no longer showed signs of rust. I assumed that this had also been properly fixed.

I now find that this rust has reappeared in exactly the same spot having first appeared a few months ago as a trace of rust in the 45 degree seam on the inside corner. Bubbles are now appearing on the outside surface.

My problem is how to go about having MB/spray shop resolve this.

Am I right in thinking that I was right all along in that the rust is coming from the inside cavity?

I awaiting the spray shop to get back to me. They may say that their work is only guaranteed for 12 months (The work was done in February 2008) in which case do I have a case against MB?

MB may say that the spray shop weren't authorised to fix the rust on the bottom corner of this door, only that under the top seals. Do I have a case against them on the basis that their original assumption on what caused this rust was wrong?

Any input will be much appreciated.

Bryan

 

[philharve]

More ****** rust

Hi bacoms

You could have taken those words out of my mouth because I am facing a similar dilemma. I, too, will shortly have to revisit the bodyshop for further rust repairs, albeit minor ones. It's still an annoyance on a vehicle like a Mercedes.

I have had a rust issue with my C class since shortly after purchasing the car. The original owner sold the car because of recurring rust problems and poor treatment from the MB dealership. However, i persevered and the 'usual' rust places, e.g. arches, were professionally repaired by an MB-approved bodyshop at MB's expense.

But, once again, rust has resurfaced elsewhere and it needs further treatment. This time it's the underside of two doors. Now that my car is 9 years old I will be picking up the bill, mores the pity. My bodyshop warrants repairs for two years and I was last there about 2 years ago. I am hoping my next visit will be the last for some years to come.

I don't trust dealers when it comes to their making decisions on rust because they might use the argument, 'untreated rust, owner's problem'. They did in my case. So I went over their head and went to an MB-approved bodyshop for their professional decision. That proved to be a wise decision.

Like you, I will be revisiting the bodyshop on or around 2 years since my last visit. I may be able to talk the bodyshop owner into repairing one of the doors free (under warranty) but probably not the other. However, I have a good relationship with the owner and I may get lucky.

If you are handling the rust issue through an MB dealership then I wish you luck. You need to be tolerant, composed and, above all, persistent.

Rust issues are legion in this forum so you are not alone, not by a long way.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

Another thought ...

Hi All

When I have the two doors repaired I would like to take a look inside all 4 doors to look for further signs of rust. What is the best long term remedy to defeat cavity rust ... POR 15 or something else? I don't want to have to paint.repair the doors again.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[television]

Lousy cheap metal, poor stampings, antiquated wheel arch design, all leads to rust, it can be hidden for a time, but if it comes back, that proves that it is rusting from the inside out.

I saw a 208 where the rear wheel arches had crumbled away, with lumps of metal missing, just like the cars of the 60's from GM and the french, Italians

 

[philharve]

Halt rust

Lousy cheap metal, poor stampings, antiquated wheel arch design, all leads to rust, it can be hidden for a time, but if it comes back, that proves that it is rusting from the inside out.

I saw a 208 where the rear wheel arches had crumbled away, with lumps of metal missing, just like the cars of the 60's from GM and the french, Italians

Hi Malcolm

I once saw an E class, the same age as mine, and was invited to feel under one of its wheel arches. The wing metal came away and crumbled in my hand as if I was crushing a Smiths crisp. That was a sobering moment I shall never forget. I went cold and thought ... 'Oh God, is this what Mercedes ownership will be like?'

The last time I spoke to the bodyshop owner he praised a new substance he had discovered which he duly applied on the underside of my car following the wheel arch repair. He was right, the rust has not returned.

I wonder if he will recommend a fix for the door cavities! He's still my best bet with decades of experience.

My last car rusted away starting at one wing at age 15 years. The doors were still intact, no rust, when it went to car heaven, aged 18. My Mercedes developed rust in a door gutter at 18 months according to the original owner. Fingers crossed, gutter corrosion has kept away, WaxOyl has seen to that.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

What prospect for the future?

Lousy cheap metal, poor stampings, antiquated wheel arch design, all leads to rust, it can be hidden for a time, but if it comes back, that proves that it is rusting from the inside out.

I saw a 208 where the rear wheel arches had crumbled away, with lumps of metal missing, just like the cars of the 60's from GM and the french, Italians

Hi Malcolm

I have been rereading this thread and clearly your criticisms of Mercedes manufacture around the Millennium period goes way beyond merely poor paintwork. I am therefore wondering if 'any' form of repair work will be effective in the long term? Your words have poured cold water upon my optimism that a chassis/door/other panel repair will be longlasting.

I will discuss this issue with the owner of my favourite bodyshop when I next see him. If there is an inevitability that my car will oxidize in a few short years then maybe there is no point in attempting costly repairs and maybe I should accept the Governments GBP2,000. It's not an easy decision. Are you perhaps being unduly pessimistic?

REGARDS

Phil

 

[Xtractorfan]

Remember when copper was an arm and a leg a few years ago..well that ties in with the period Mb started making rusty cars..cos they bought cheaper metal that contained no copper oxide..The copper in the metal is basically an in built rust preventitave, so therin lies the problem..many of the pattern / spurious panel used this metal as well..

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

sadly the truth is that modern Mercs rust. My w203 had rust in a lot of place, although these were mainly from sone chips. There was rust appearing between the petrol filler cap and the rear wheel arch. MB insisted this was stone chip damage but it bubbled up from under the paint.

I think if you have a Merc (not all models I think) you just have to accept that it is going to rust.

 

[television]

sadly the truth is that modern Mercs rust. My w203 had rust in a lot of place, although these were mainly from sone chips. There was rust appearing between the petrol filler cap and the rear wheel arch. MB insisted this was stone chip damage but it bubbled up from under the paint.

I think if you have a Merc (not all models I think) you just have to accept that it is going to rust.

Tings have got better, from 04-03 all cars are galvanized, and from 04-04 they have the Nano paint, so the rust has come to an end.

I see now that we have a stock pile of used baked bean tins that no one wants now that MB are buying better metal

 

[OmniCognateNeutronRangler]

:lol::lol:

You're right Malcolm, of course, my experience of Mercedes stopped pretty much when they sarted getting better at making cars again.

Even in the "dark years" I think some models were a lot better than others.

 

[bacoms]

Hi bacoms

You could have taken those words out of my mouth because I am facing a similar dilemma. I, too, will shortly have to revisit the bodyshop for further rust repairs, albeit minor ones. It's still an annoyance on a vehicle like a Mercedes.

I have had a rust issue with my C class since shortly after purchasing the car. The original owner sold the car because of recurring rust problems and poor treatment from the MB dealership. However, i persevered and the 'usual' rust places, e.g. arches, were professionally repaired by an MB-approved bodyshop at MB's expense.

But, once again, rust has resurfaced elsewhere and it needs further treatment. This time it's the underside of two doors. Now that my car is 9 years old I will be picking up the bill, mores the pity. My bodyshop warrants repairs for two years and I was last there about 2 years ago. I am hoping my next visit will be the last for some years to come.

I don't trust dealers when it comes to their making decisions on rust because they might use the argument, 'untreated rust, owner's problem'. They did in my case. So I went over their head and went to an MB-approved bodyshop for their professional decision. That proved to be a wise decision.

Like you, I will be revisiting the bodyshop on or around 2 years since my last visit. I may be able to talk the bodyshop owner into repairing one of the doors free (under warranty) but probably not the other. However, I have a good relationship with the owner and I may get lucky.

If you are handling the rust issue through an MB dealership then I wish you luck. You need to be tolerant, composed and, above all, persistent.

Rust issues are legion in this forum so you are not alone, not by a long way.

REGARDS

Phil

Hi Phil,

Sorry to hear you've joined the growing numbers who made the mistake of buying a MB of turn of the millenium vintage.

The latest update on my car is that the spray shop have told me that they 'fixed' the rust on the bottom corner of the drivers door as 'they didn't want to return the car to me with rust showing'. They went on to say that as this wasn't authorised by MB, they didn't fix it to MB's standard (2-part epoxy etc), which is why it's back again. They don't think the rust on the outside has anything to do with rust developing in the door cavity. In their experience this typically doesn't happen.

Basically they are saying 'the door had rust in the this spot when it came in and it has got rust there now'. Fixing it is down to me. My response that they should have told me this initially and given me the option of paying to have this fixed properly, fell on deaf ears.

So much for the peace of mind of owning a Merc.

Bryan

 

[philharve]

Two tier repair

... The latest update on my car is that the spray shop have told me that they 'fixed' the rust on the bottom corner of the drivers door as 'they didn't want to return the car to me with rust showing'. They went on to say that as this wasn't authorised by MB, they didn't fix it to MB's standard (2-part epoxy etc), which is why it's back again. They don't think the rust on the outside has anything to do with rust developing in the door cavity. In their experience this typically doesn't happen.

Basically they are saying 'the door had rust in the this spot when it came in and it has got rust there now'. Fixing it is down to me. My response that they should have told me this initially and given me the option of paying to have this fixed properly, fell on deaf ears.

Hi Bryan

You are saying that your bodyshop has a two tier repair policy. They will do a superior repair if MB is paying for it but a lesser quality repair if the owner is paying. And if you want an MB quality repair you must presumably pay more? I feel at this moment in time I would like to utter Victor Meldrew's most popular expression.

My own bodyshop offers just one quality of repair and they would probably reject my request to perform a substandard repair just to save me money. To me a substandard repair is a false economy. Furthermore, I would not embarrass my bodyshop by asking for such a repair.

I do know that MB has costed every repair and bodyshops are under strict instructions not to exceed these estimates.

I agree, you should have been notified of the different standards of repair and given the option of choosing either. Personally, I am horrified that an option exists. Doubtless other members will have feelings about this.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

Rusty doors

Hi All

I have received an estimate for the repair to the bottoms of the two nearside doors, GBP334.00. This is pretty much as expected and it is for TWO doors. I know what the results will be like because I had an offside door repaired a couple years ago. I will, of course, have the work done by my trusted bodyshop. They will be checking their handiwork resulting from previous repairs. I anticipate no problems.

I wonder how many years it will be before I will have to revisit the bodyshop? Not too many I should think. This step seems to be inevitable for a many MB owners. A great pity! The bodyshop owner commented that he sees many of his customers returning with minor rust problems and they all say it's a great car except for the rust. I suppose that's loyalty for you.

REGARDS

Phil