My first Merc - and definitely the last

[03E500]

Hi guys,

I understand that most of you are all MB enthusiasts, but I think I have come to the end of the my brief Merc ownership.

I bought a W211 03 model E500 in October last year, I was quite impressed by the level of equipments, the performance, and even the general appearance of the car. One month into ownership, I had to spend around 800 to fix some of the electrical faults (dynamic seats, auto wiper, and the sunroof switch ...etc). Well, I thought that it was a one off defect and I was ok with it, it is not perfect, but I was still very happy wit hthe car.

Well, I saw some fluid leaking last week and took it into Merc.... and guss what, not only the pipes for the automatic transmission fluids are rusted, even the radiator is also rusted. Now I am looking at a repait bill of £1500.00.
I am not being over critical on the quality of the MB cars, but the 10 year olf Japanese bomb I had was far more reliable than this supposingly top of the range German engineering.

How can rust still be an issue in today's cars ? especially for a company which praises itself as one of the most prestigious car manufacturer. We are looking at cars that can almost drive itself now, and yet MB can not even get the basic stuff right. I think they have spent all their efforts concentrating on gadgets and have lost their focus on the basic reliability of the car.

So, I will be cutting my losses and selling the car and PX the car for something a bit more reliable. Don't think I will ever have a courage of buying a Merc again, I think they are probably the worst in terms of reliability amongst all the German car manufacturers.

Anyway, just want to share my experience of ownership before I jump ship.

Good luck with all your merc ownership adventure.

Cheers.

 

[jberks]

All the things you mention MB will fix FOC or with a considerable contribution if you ask them. They did have problems with a few of the the early 211s (later ones are fine) but they are pretty good with goodwill. I know where you're coming from as my Dads has had all the brake pipes replaced recently (2 days work) FOC despite no warranty and no FMBSH, and he'd just bought it.
We said they shouldn't be rusty at this age (expecting an argument) and MB just agreed and asked us to book it in. Speak to the dealer and complain.

Also, you bought it presumably without any form of warranty or AA / MB inspection?? Never a good idea with cars as complex and expensive as these.
Any car if neglected can be that troublesome. Even Lexus are having issues these days. To be fair, you don't know where it's lived or been stored.

Once you know it, then ok but bought as seen, buyer beware. If the car has this level of trouble and it hasn't been fixed under warranty then its been neglected.

Finally, You are taking an unwarrantied car to a dealer to fix (at those prices). An indie would probably have been a fraction of the cost for the same work, assuming the work you've had done actually needed doing.

Finally, for future reference, mid 04- are fine. they are galvanised and have a lot of fixes in them - hence mine is a Nov 04 and has been fine.

 

[BlackC55]

All the things you mention MB will fix FOC or with a considerable contribution if you ask them. They did have problems with a few of the the early 211s (later ones are fine) but they are pretty good with goodwill. I know where you're coming from as my Dads has had all the brake pipes replaced recently (2 days work) FOC despite no warranty and no FMBSH, and he'd just bought it.
We said they shouldn't be rusty at this age (expecting an argument) and MB just agreed and asked us to book it in. Speak to the dealer and complain.

Also, you bought it presumably without any form of warranty or AA / MB inspection?? Never a good idea with cars as complex and expensive as these.
Any car if neglected can be that troublesome. Even Lexus are having issues these days. To be fair, you don't know where it's lived or been stored.

Once you know it, then ok but bought as seen, buyer beware. If the car has this level of trouble and it hasn't been fixed under warranty then its been neglected.

Finally, You are taking an unwarrantied car to a dealer to fix (at those prices). An indie would probably have been a fraction of the cost for the same work, assuming the work you've had done actually needed doing.

Finally, for future reference, mid 04- are fine. they are galvanised and have a lot of fixes in them - hence mine is a Nov 04 and has been fine.

Absolutly spot on advice

 

[hawk20]

Just a point of detail: -
On the E class, all steel panels were galvanised from Quarter 1, 2003, production onwards.
During the previous quarter (Q4, 2002) the process was gradually introduced
on the production line and therefore some vehicles were galvanised during
this lead-up period, but not all.

It is not fair to generalise from one bad example. The E class is up in the top quarter of cars in the JD Power survey. And I think the facelifted one will soon be doing even better. 2000 changes were made and my dealer reports them as virtually fault free.

And in the US, the S class has just come first in the JD Power Initial Quality Survey. So you may have been unlucky. You may have one that is less good than normal, or one less well cared for. But it is not fair to blame Mercedes as a breed. Might be worth reconsidering or joining Service Plus which covers all the main bills. It would be a lot cheaper than changing.

Worth looking where the BMW is in the JD Power attached.

 

[television]

Absolutly spot on advice

Jberks has the ability to write a perfect letter in these situations

 

[03E500]

All the things you mention MB will fix FOC or with a considerable contribution if you ask them. They did have problems with a few of the the early 211s (later ones are fine) but they are pretty good with goodwill. I know where you're coming from as my Dads has had all the brake pipes replaced recently (2 days work) FOC despite no warranty and no FMBSH, and he'd just bought it.
We said they shouldn't be rusty at this age (expecting an argument) and MB just agreed and asked us to book it in. Speak to the dealer and complain.

Also, you bought it presumably without any form of warranty or AA / MB inspection?? Never a good idea with cars as complex and expensive as these.
Any car if neglected can be that troublesome. Even Lexus are having issues these days. To be fair, you don't know where it's lived or been stored.

Once you know it, then ok but bought as seen, buyer beware. If the car has this level of trouble and it hasn't been fixed under warranty then its been neglected.

Finally, You are taking an unwarrantied car to a dealer to fix (at those prices). An indie would probably have been a fraction of the cost for the same work, assuming the work you've had done actually needed doing.

Finally, for future reference, mid 04- are fine. they are galvanised and have a lot of fixes in them - hence mine is a Nov 04 and has been fine.

Well, it sounds like that I have just been unfortunate. JBerk, it will be nice if you show us what exactly you wrote to Mercedes Benz to ask for this goodwill repair.

I am not sure if I will have the same treatment though.....

 

[03E500]

All the things you mention MB will fix FOC or with a considerable contribution if you ask them. They did have problems with a few of the the early 211s (later ones are fine) but they are pretty good with goodwill. I know where you're coming from as my Dads has had all the brake pipes replaced recently (2 days work) FOC despite no warranty and no FMBSH, and he'd just bought it.
We said they shouldn't be rusty at this age (expecting an argument) and MB just agreed and asked us to book it in. Speak to the dealer and complain.

Also, you bought it presumably without any form of warranty or AA / MB inspection?? Never a good idea with cars as complex and expensive as these.
Any car if neglected can be that troublesome. Even Lexus are having issues these days. To be fair, you don't know where it's lived or been stored.

Once you know it, then ok but bought as seen, buyer beware. If the car has this level of trouble and it hasn't been fixed under warranty then its been neglected.

Finally, You are taking an unwarrantied car to a dealer to fix (at those prices). An indie would probably have been a fraction of the cost for the same work, assuming the work you've had done actually needed doing.

Finally, for future reference, mid 04- are fine. they are galvanised and have a lot of fixes in them - hence mine is a Nov 04 and has been fine.

Well, it sounds like that I have just been unfortunate. JBerk, it will be nice if you show us what exactly you wrote to Mercedes Benz to ask for this goodwill repair.

I am not sure if I will have the same treatment though.....

Who and what address should this complain be addressed to ?

 

[hawk20]

While waiting for JBerks to reply you may find this link interesting as it shows the lengths Mercedes are now going to in order to address faults on NEW cars. Not directly relevant to you but shows the new, much improved attitude IMO.

You may find the article helpful; it will show you some details of the troubleshooting system,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/.../mfmerc101.xml

Here is an extract from Mike Belk After Sales Director
"But even that doesn't solve all the problems," says Belk. "A lot of the things we see are a number of problems with the same car. So we've now got a team of guys who go out and see customers, dealers and cars.
"They are highly technically literate and are also empowered commercially to do anything up to and including a buy-back of the car. They are some of the best guys that we've got and are our front line on solving issues.
"We decide how and where these guys are sent with a Rapid Reaction Group, which reviews all difficult cases. I set this up because I was fed up with the ping-pong match between customers, the customer centre, dealers and us. It was deeply unsatisfactory for the customer and it looked as if we weren't joined up…"

Another link you may need one day is: -
CustomerService.UK@cac.DaimlerChrysler.com

 

[hawk20]

I always deal with my local dealer first and only go direct to Mercedes if the service manager or service director cannot help. You need to make it clear, gently, politely but firmly that you want a private chat with nothing less than the Service Manager (or start with Director?) Which part of the country are you in?

 

[03E500]

Hi Hawk20, thanks for the useful link. It sounds like they do agree that the quality of the MB cars had gone down the toilets and doing their best to rectify the issues.

Very interesting article, I will probably quote it in my letter to DaimerChrysler complains department....

 

[jberks]

Well, it sounds like that I have just been unfortunate. JBerk, it will be nice if you show us what exactly you wrote to Mercedes Benz to ask for this goodwill repair.

I am not sure if I will have the same treatment though.....

Who and what address should this complain be addressed to ?

The trick is to get the service manager to fight your corner. We spoke to him initially and he wasn't sure as they often aren't. We pointed out that a 3/4 year old E class shouldn't be failing MOTs - which he agreed with and asked us to speak to their MOT station. We did and they agreed it was a borderline failure. At that point, they didn't have much of an argument. No car < 6 years old should be failing MOTs, whatever the make.
So, the manager put in a claim, which was turned down by the computer (as he said to expect). He then rang MB, which is standard practice in these cases - they have a dept for the dealers to contact and appeal, and they ok'd the work on the spot.

If the dealer isn't too helpful, go to another. The bottom line, is that no 211 should be suffering from corrosion yet, irrespective of where that corrosion is and especially if that corrsion has resulted in the failure or impending failure of critical components.

If all else fails, a call to MB customer services asking for a formal investigation should get some movement.

You may have a bit of a fight first (though you probably won't) but the outcome should be positive.
Normal advice, get names and dates of contacts etc - in case it drags on, but a cooperative dealer can work wonders so start there first. If it as bad as you say and requires this level of work, I can't see how they can argue, but don't take their first answer and keep going up the chain until your sitting with the dealer principal.

I've heard a few cases where people have had unjustifyable "no's" from dealers and I can't help thinking that it has more to do with the fact that the service manager had a bad night than it does anything to do with MB policy.

Persevere - after all, you have a fantastic car if they can sort the issues.
And do let us know how you go on.
good luck.

 

[03E500]

While waiting for JBerks to reply you may find this link interesting as it shows the lengths Mercedes are now going to in order to address faults on NEW cars. Not directly relevant to you but shows the new, much improved attitude IMO.

You may find the article helpful; it will show you some details of the troubleshooting system,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/.../mfmerc101.xml

Here is an extract from Mike Belk After Sales Director
"But even that doesn't solve all the problems," says Belk. "A lot of the things we see are a number of problems with the same car. So we've now got a team of guys who go out and see customers, dealers and cars.
"They are highly technically literate and are also empowered commercially to do anything up to and including a buy-back of the car. They are some of the best guys that we've got and are our front line on solving issues.
"We decide how and where these guys are sent with a Rapid Reaction Group, which reviews all difficult cases. I set this up because I was fed up with the ping-pong match between customers, the customer centre, dealers and us. It was deeply unsatisfactory for the customer and it looked as if we weren't joined up…"

Another link you may need one day is: -
CustomerService.UK@cac.DaimlerChrysler.com

Hi Hawk20,

Could you give me the full link where you found this article please? It was abbreviated in URL.

Thanks mate.

 

[hawk20]

Hi Hawk20, thanks for the useful link. It sounds like they do agree that the quality of the MB cars had gone down the toilets and doing their best to rectify the issues.

Very interesting article, I will probably quote it in my letter to DaimerChrysler complains department....

Well.... Quality went down from around late nineties to about the turn of the century. Most would say 2003 onwards are huge improvement. And that is why you see the big improvement in JD Power and in the US quality surveys too.

 

[Rory]

I think the replies here are making some assumptions about the car - it might be a grey import, have done 120K miles and never seen an MB dealership for servicing. Why was it apparently sold without a comprehensive warranty?

O3E500 - what quite a few MB owner (inc me) do now is to buy MB's ServicePlus package, which covers pretty all servicing, MOT's (inc repairs necessary if it fails) and pretty well all repairs on the car for up to 6yrs /120K miles. It's not as cheap as it used to be, but it does give fixed, known, costs and peace of mind.

 

[hawk20]

Hi Hawk20,

Could you give me the full link where you found this article please? It was abbreviated in URL.

Thanks mate.

Try this: -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2006/04/01/mfmerc101.xml

 

[hawk20]

It works for me. This website always abreviates.

 

[hawk20]

BUT IF THAT FAILS FOR YOU: -
If I print the full link it shortens.. So after the bit that gives you telegraph.co.uk/motoring/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/

YOU WILL NEED TO ADD
main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2006/04/01/mfmerc101.xml

Hope this helps.

 

[03E500]

Hi Guys,

As expected. This is the reply I got from Mercedes Benz. Basically, they are telling me to go away because my car is at a local Mercedes Benz specialist rather than a Mercedes Benz dealer. I have sent a response stating that if the automatic transmission pipes and radiator is not badly rusted, causing me to lose automatic transmission fluid, maybe I could have driven it to a Mercedes Benz dealer.

So far, I am not impressed with either the workmanship, quality or the customer service. I did not even get an apology....

Just crap isn't it.


*********************
Thank you for your email of 25th July 2007, regarding the issue experienced with the automatic transmission of your Mercedes-Benz-E-Class.

Unfortunately, we are unable to investigate or comment reference the automatic transmission issue experienced with your vehicle, as it is at a non- authorised Mercedes-Benz retailer. We also regret to inform you that there will be no goodwill contribution forthcoming from Mercedes-Benz.

Should you have any further requirements, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely

Alustera Gommans
Case Manager
Customer Service
DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center N.V.
Gaetano Martinolaan 10
NL-6229 GS Maastricht, The Netherlands

Phone Nr: 00800 1 777 7777
mailto: CustomerService.UK@cac.daimlerchrysler.com

 

[hawk20]

I think you need to get the car to a Mercedes dealer and get the service manager to fight your corner as the posting from Jberks says.

Or phone Mercedes customer Service in the UK at Milton Keynes.

But you can't expect them to sanction work to be done by people who are not authorised repairers.

 

[mb560sel]

I agree completely on the quality issue.What exactly happened in the late nineties?How can Merc have sunk this low?I know it's not what you want to hear,but my 560 is almost 20 years old and is still on it's original radiator,gearbox,and most of the original pipeworks barring exhaust!The same can be said for my 88 230E,and that survived being stationed in Iraq!However,Car Mechanics magazines' latest project car is a 99 E Class and they have stated that the work needed on your car should be carried out either FOC or at the very least with a substantial reduction of the cost involved.Page 57 of the latest issue.Prepare to be shocked by the pictures!