No Price Haggling

[5w155t0ny]

Do you sell / buy cars for a living? Just wondering where your anger is coming from.

We (the buying public with our hard earned money) negotiate strongly on a new car because we know we will get screwed when it comes time to PE it. Dealers know that the easiest route is to a new car is to PE the old car and thus screw the buyers. They (dealers) know that most people do not have the available funds to bridge the financing of a new car while they sell the old car.

My son gets a new car each for him and his wife every 3 years . He buys them on PCP & settles after a couple of weeks (as you suggest above). Then when it comes time for a new car, he sells the old one “privately" (Motorway, Carwow etc) and always does better than what the dealer offered as a PE for the next car (but he can afford to wait which most people cannot). Their cars are well looked after and not cheap. His current ride is a Taycan and hers is a Q8. You’d expect that the dealer would offer a decent PE valuation.

Are you really saying that the dealers are giving us the best deal available?

I very much doubt it.

Where is the anger in my post? I seem to remember you being one of the people I have seen post comments like “if the salesman’s lips are moving he’s lying” and other such tripe.
If you regard making comments that hold others to account because of sterotypical generalisations as being angry, then that at least explains your attitude.
If you take any notice of my posts , which I know you have in the past, you will know I do sell cars for a living. In fact I am second generation motor trade and have been involved in the car job for nearly 50 years so like to think I have a certain level of insight and credibility to respond to ridiculous preconceptions.
Regarding getting screwed on your part ex, no one forces you to put the car in the deal, you have the right to sell it wherever you wish, providing any finance is paid prior. This is another ridiculous comment, because you are insinuating the dealer is holding a gun to your head by forcing you to accept a lower price which you don’t have to accept, but you wouldn’t realise the benefit of just saying you need more because you probably just flounce out shouting about another dealer trying to rip you off.

 

[rorywquin]

Where is the anger in my post? I seem to remember you being one of the people I have seen post comments like “if the salesman’s lips are moving he’s lying” and other such tripe.
If you regard making comments that hold others to account because of sterotypical generalisations as being angry, then that at least explains your attitude.
If you take any notice of my posts , which I know you have in the past, you will know I do sell cars for a living. In fact I am second generation motor trade and have been involved in the car job for nearly 50 years so like to think I have a certain level of insight and credibility to respond to ridiculous preconceptions.

1a) “ I’ve said on here before the attitude of some of you stinks when it comes to dealing with salesman.....” Seems angry to me. However the written word can get misconstrued.
1b) “............and it is no wonder they try and stripe you up on a deal when you talk to them like sh*te.” This statement seems to validate and justify the fact that people think they are being crooked. Again, the written word can get misconstrued.

2) I do not recall saying what you have quoted. What I have said is that they will try and scew you down with crappy PE deals. Given that I’ve been buying & selling my & my family's cars for over 50 years, I also have some experience in dealing with car salesman and have met a few thoroughly dishonest members of that profession in my time. I'd go as far as to say some car dealers that I have come across were downright crooks.

3) I don’t take enough notice of your posts to have drawn the conclusion that you sell cars.

4) I note that you have not denied any of my comments about pricing of PE cars.

5) Given that a motor car is often the 2nd most expensive thing (after a house) that most people will ever buy, it is not surprising that it is a hot & emotive topic.

 

[5w155t0ny]

1a) “ I’ve said on here before the attitude of some of you stinks when it comes to dealing with salesman.....” Seems angry to me. However the written word can get misconstrued.
1b) “............and it is no wonder they try and stripe you up on a deal when you talk to them like sh*te.” This statement seems to validate and justify the fact that people think they are being crooked. Again, the written word can get misconstrued.

2) I do not recall saying what you have quoted. What I have said is that they will try and scew you down with crappy PE deals. Given that I’ve been buying & selling my & my family's cars for over 50 years, I also have some experience in dealing with car salesman and have met a few thoroughly dishonest members of that profession in my time. I'd go as far as to say some car dealers that I have come across were downright crooks.

3) I don’t take enough notice of your posts to have drawn the conclusion that you sell cars.

4) I note that you have not denied any of my comments about pricing of PE cars.

5) Given that a motor car is often the 2nd most expensive thing (after a house) that most people will ever buy, it is not surprising that it is a hot & emotive topic.

Not going to get drawn into an online argument, but I will take issue with point 4.
Dealers are not charities, they are businesses. They have to make money in order to stay open and keep their employees in jobs and yes, make a profit.
If you want to buy a new house, shall I assume that you pay the asking price without any negotiation because you wouldn’t want to be regarded as a shyster looking to get something on the cheap?
Or is that somehow different because it is you and you are entitled to a better price?

 

[rorywquin]

Not going to get drawn into an online argument, but I will take issue with point 4.
Dealers are not charities, they are businesses. They have to make money in order to stay open and keep their employees in jobs and yes, make a profit.
If you want to buy a new house, shall I assume that you pay the asking price without any negotiation because you wouldn’t want to be regarded as a shyster looking to get something on the cheap?
Or is that somehow different because it is you and you are entitled to a better price?

Points 1 to 3 & 5, no argument indeed. They are facts.

I own several properties and have owned many more on different continents over the years. I’ve never paid the asking price. I rarely buy any expensive item without asking for a discount. If you know anything about selling (a house), you will always leave room for negotiation, knowing that people want to negotiate and by your accepting their lower offer, they feel as if they have won - AKA "happy customer”. "How to Sell 101".

OTOH, do you price your cars at the minimum profit that you’d be happy to make or do you build in a buffer for negotiation & smile if the punter is foolish enough to pay the asking price?

 

[Srdl]

Not going to get drawn into an online argument, but I will take issue with point 4.

Points 1 to 3 & 5, no argument indeed. They are facts.

This is starting to get boring guys! I’m much more interested to hear how the motor trade business models are changing.

 

[lewyboy]

Points 1 to 3 & 5, no argument indeed. They are facts.

I own several properties and have owned many more on different continents over the years. I’ve never paid the asking price. I rarely buy any expensive item without asking for a discount. If you know anything about selling (a house), you will always leave room for negotiation, knowing that people want to negotiate and by your accepting their lower offer, they feel as if they have won - AKA "happy customer”. "How to Sell 101".

OTOH, do you price your cars at the minimum profit that you’d be happy to make or do you build in a buffer for negotiation & smile if the punter is foolish enough to pay the asking price?

Actually, selling at ‘over asking’ has become a thing over the past decade.

This is partly due to a shortage of housing but also driven by estate agents. Some agents are measured by % of asking price so it looks great for them when pitching for business to be able to say that they have achieved 98% of asking price over the last 12 months.

 

[5w155t0ny]

This is starting to get boring guys! I’m much more interested to hear how the motor trade business models are changing.

Agreed, that’s why I haven’t bothered replying. Can’t argue with ignorance.

 

[MBDevotee]

I too work in a franchised dealer (Not Merc) - and I too can confirm the Manufacturers have this "vision" of a future where dealerships are more like "presentation" places - where you go to look at the cars and test drive them (although they'd prefer if you didn't) but then you just order it direct with the manufacturer via an online tool - and the car will be delivered directly to you on a truck or you collect it from the dealer. In return for this the dealer gets a pitiful "handling fee". It will absolutely result ultimately in the end of the dealer as you know it - and not in a good way I promise you.

People seem to think that it's so evil for dealers to try and make a profit - why? Those of you in business let me ask you, do you aim to make a loss or at the most "break even"?

I sold a £60,000 car the other week and made £32.46 ????? On what planet does that make business sense (Carwow price match). Carwow is great for people now, but it won't exist in a few years if all the Manufacturers go agency model - and then they will control the price, so you'll all pay a lot more than before when you only managed to haggle a smaller discount than you can now - it's short-term gain for long-term pain.

You might think all dealers are b*lls*itters and liars and I confess over the years this industry hasn't helped itself in that regard - but oh my goodness be careful what you wish for..... If all Manufacturers go agency, you can forget competitive pricing....

We are now seeing Motorway and the like paying well into CAP for part-exchanges (great for you the customer you think) - but guess what, all that does is drive up used car prices slowly..... because then everyone has to pay more until used cars cost more than they did..... And over the last 2-3 years look what that's done to prices of used cars.

It costs us £40,000 a month at our site - other sites a lot more - to open our dealership. That's just to open the doors, put on the lights, run the demo fleet, pay the staff, the rents the heating the coffee machine and so on - you have to sell an awful lot of cars with a £500 "handling fee" to make that back - 80 a month to be precise - and that's not even the dealer making "a profit". Our company has 100 sites and over £600m invested in the business. Now if you invest £600m I'm guessing you want to do more than "break even"??

So these large companies - that provide stability and mean you have a real actual person you can go and see when you have a problem with your new car - will simply pull out of the motor industry....

As has been said - leave customer service to the Manufacturer and god help the customer - cos he's the only one who will!

On a used car, we make about £600 on average, bit more if you take the finance and extra products - again that's not stupid money when you think about all the costs and so forth, so if the Manufacturer "owns" the used car market by having all the supply of that too - then guess what, you'll probably pay more for your used car as well......

We have gone to a "little haggling" model - 90% of our sales are now at advertised price, the only exceptions being overage stock etc, and it's working surprisingly well as our cars are priced "well" to start with.

This Agency model is absolutely what the industry is going for - but I'm afraid whilst it's great for the Manufacturer it's not great for the customer and there won't be any actual independently owned dealers left.......


As I said - be careful what you wish for - you might actually miss the dealer when all you can do is mail-order your new car without ever seeing it or test driving it (although more and more people buy cars without test drives now).