Older Mercs - Do We Have Enough Indes ?

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi everyone, i joined the club some weeks ago and there is lots of help and information, i love the breed and treasure my 97 e-300 td 7 seater est. never let me down until now. yes i have had problems, auto box limp home, fuel system sucking air, front suspension coil spring cup falling off, belt tensioner rattle, rear silencer rattling against heat shield, cruise control surging, and currently the MAF, with the associated electronics. but as i say i have never been stuck at the road side in 190,000 miles. for people who run far less complicated cars they would understandably say i am asking too much at 190,000 miles, and may be i am, it's because it's a merc, this is what they are supposed to do. so much for the backdrop of what i am soliciting opinions on, the question is "do we have enough indes to diagnose problems in a honest cost effective way ? i am a qualified engineer and from the industry i was in we employed dozens of service technicians, we knew that 70% of them were "parts changers", keep replacing somthing until you get a fix. the postings sugest that most indes are in this cattegory, no disrespect to them, i accept they do their best, but even with the "star" etc. there is lots of trial and error. this is ok but having parts fitted which you did not need is expensive and bad for the breed. what do you out there think ? where are the real experts who can diagnose and fix things ? what a tragedy that the main dealers are only "filter changers" and valleters for new cars. who are the real technicians in lancashire ? herbiemercman.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

In the retail motor industry, the figure is far far higher than 70%.

A Lancastrian in exile in Derby writes....

It's some years since I used to go to the IMI lectures which used to be held near Sharoe Green Hospital, but IIRC there was a chap called Frank Massey? who knew his onions, and had a diagnostic company in Preston.

 

[television]

The problem is going to get worse.

1,, you cant teach someone electronics, if they do not have a flair for it,, nothing moves, and everything is signals and wave forms, pulses and more, so what has happened. Car makers have tried to teach motor mechanics the electronics side of things. I have been doing electronics for 59 years now, it even for me it is not easy keeping up to date. you can have all of the fancy expensive test gear, but if you do not know what you are looking at, it is of no use to man nor beast. The garages that do use it often miss read and interpret what the gear is saying, a good example is fault codes where little understanding makes it very expensive for the car owner, where part after part is fitted, all to no avail.

The MB techies told me that they did not want to be electronic engineers, but have been forced into it to survive.

I think that the car makers should have picked up on this , there has been a glut of TV engineers on the market, these guys know how it all works,,we can just look at a diagram and work it all out with ease. Why do not the car makers pick up these guys, train them, and offer say a weekly visit for the hard to find faults on cars. I had to do that at one stage in my life, and it goes down very well.

 

[television]

In the retail motor industry, the figure is far far higher than 70%.

A Lancastrian in exile in Derby writes....

It's some years since I used to go to the IMI lectures which used to be held near Sharoe Green Hospital, but IIRC there was a chap called Frank Massey? who knew his onions, and had a diagnostic company in Preston.

I know him too,,a red hot guy who wanted to be a TV engineer,,a very nice man and clever

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi malcolm & numercrucher, thankyou for your replies, pleased to see other people see the situation. my MAF (air mass sensor) pt. no: A6110940048 from stuttgart arrived today, hope to try it out tommorow. in the absence of knowledge and electronic diags etc, i will have to take on the "parts changer" role. herbiemercman.

 

[television]

I hope, that is with time permitting to list the pin outs on the ECU's for testing the MAF on most models,,at least it will be a sure way to tell if it is on the way out.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

The garages that do use it often miss read and interpret what the gear is saying, a good example is fault codes where little understanding makes it very expensive for the car owner

I believe that you are (typically) understating yourself Malcolm. The emergence of Star type technology does tend to de-skill the operator - plug it in and read the faults.

The medical people have had the same problem throughout my working life. A "flat line" on an ECG would suggest a dead patient, but hang on, he's sitting up, smiling and having a cup of tea - but one of the ECG leads has fallen off!

People using Satnav have the same problem and end up in all sorts of fixes because "the computer said so".

The harsh reality is that the computer is only an aid - you then have to make a value judgement based on knowledge, experience and common sense.

So you listen a lot to the problem, you ask pertinent questions, you narrow down the possibilities, and you then use the computer to confirm your views, or help on the last stage of the journey.

But it is only an aid. Those who rely on it entirely will look silly with their patients, end up in the middle of the village pond with Satnav or continue replacing parts until they get the right answer, or until the customer runs out of patience or cash!

Technology is great but it is the discrimination and skills of the operator which bring it to life.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi alex, very good reply i am sure malcolm will agree. in the end finding a good experienced honest inde is the hard part. meanwhile learning from the members and their postings and trying things one's self is so rewarding if it works and for the old merc, retired owners the cost factor is paramount.
herbiemercman.

 

[television]

What makes it worse is when things get fitted to the car in an attempt to fix it, this goes on at MB garages and others,, they work on the assumption that the part was bought in to try and fix it, it did not but hard luck.

This must be the only trade where this goes on, a typical one is injectors, often several or all are replaced so that they can be sure that they have got the faulty one, and the bill for the injectors comes out at £1200 often plus fitting.

Now what happens to the faulty ones, they are not given back to the car owner, so I guess that they all go away to firms that recon these things for a fraction of the price, and are re sold to the next customer.

Another example is starter motors and alternators, do we ever get the re conditioned ones that Bosch and other manufactures advertise, the answer is no we do not.

So many stories of these bad practices on the forum, the lady who got a £2200 bill for an ignition switch fault on a 203 its all very sick and it upsets me. that kind of a bill can wreck the economy of the average working family.

I have managed 58 years on my own, and never cheated anyone,,yes I have several thousand pounds worth of unsold parts, but so what, I make money from 99% of all the jobs that I do