Perhaps wanting a ML270 - General Questions

[istruggle2gate11]

Hi All,

Brand-newbie to this forum, I have had a brief search around, I have found some answers but would like to ask a few more with regard to possibly buying a ML270.

I have a very tight budget £5k ish, and whilst looking around ebay, autotrader etc, I came across ML270's around this price, which surprised me!

Im currently running a 07 plate Mitsubishi Shogun sport 2.5 which returns awful mpg - 19-22 depending on driving / distance. It is a company car, and to be honest not my choice, so I am looking for a "comfortable" "affordable" toy that is capable of towing around circa 2000kg and when not towing offering sensible mpg when being used for private.

So Questions:

1) It has been referred on here and other web pages that 30mpg is possible under normal driving.... is this true?

2) The vehicles I can afford are typically around 90k miles and up, are these cars capable of doing high mileage? - I would expect to do 20k per annum.

3) Im very hands on with cars (offroader for years and years, more than happy to re-build an engine, swap a gearbox, build a special etc) - Are these cars owner serviceable?

4) Are pattern parts available at a sensible price?

5) Any major problems I should look out for when browsing?

6) I would prefer an auto over a manual, unless anybody knows of a distinct advantage for manual in these cars?

Thanks in advance

 

[Mark A]

1) 30Mpg is about right - unless you are doing a lot of stop start driving in town.

2) The engine & gearbox have been used in many other MB's - some reaching high mileage. I wouldn't be put off just by the mileage - just make sure it has been looked after.

3) owner serviceable - definately.

4) pattern parts - depends upon what parts, but the day to day stuff can be got from many places including euro car parts.

5) There are many little niggles with the ML's, but as long as you are prepared to do the work your self, you can keep them going without re-mortgaging.

6) I would always go auto with an MB.

 

[television]

With that good answer from mark, that covers those questions.

Welcome to the MB forum, if you do get one, and they are nice, if you want to have a go at fixing anything I send out how too info for a particular job

 

[istruggle2gate11]

Thank you guys, looking more and more promising!

Insurance is the next stumbling block (company car for the last 10 years)

Of course, now found a spanner in the works.....the 320 with LPG, a couple around the 140k miles though - are the petrols mile munchers as well?

 

[truthfindergeneral]

If you are thinking of wasting money on an LPG conversion, then please contact me and I'll look after your cash until you are well again.

 

[pault8084]

gotta be the 270.I get 30mpg and enjoy the torque and drivability over a petrol.Gotta be auto as well,effortless.I've had leaking injectors ,which are common but no other issues and the cars done 194000 miles

 

[MarkF]

Hi,

I've had my ML270CDI for 2 years now with no problems, runs like a dream.
The only problem I have is getting the wife out so I can have a go.
Pulls the Horse trailer with no problems at all and on a run from home in north wales to Peterborough it returned 34 mpg.

Get one you will not be dissapointed.

Regards

Mark

 

[kebo57]

Hi & welcome I like this from your thread "build a special etc"
And your from Newark, Nottingham sounds like you must have done some P&D, Lincoln events.
I too needed a vehicle that would tow a trailer + land rover & wasn't flat out at 98 MPH like the TD5 disco.
I looked at road tests and came across the ML 270 & X5 the cheapest X5 I could find was £18500. So I tested a ML 270 I was well impressed so I bought at £8375 it had 148000 miles then & now 202500 miles, top speed of 116 mph, I've done m6 toll at 100 mph on cruise with no problems, the best mpg I've ever had was 33 mpg at 83 mph.
I've had some problems but never had the motor back to MB
Kevin

 

[JEZ.S320L]

Had my ML now for almost 18months. My very first Mercedes Brilliant.! Oh - and 100% reliable, especially when wading through VERY deep, muddy Spanish flash-floods. Average just over 31mpg of mixed (mainly 80ish on Motorways with C/C engaged).

 

[hawk20]

If you are thinking of wasting money on an LPG conversion, then please contact me and I'll look after your cash until you are well again.

Don't want to hi-jack this thread but could you do a new thread and say why you feel this. Love to know the pro's and cons.

On the ML270cdi, I had one for 15k miles and it was really comfortable on long runs and we regularly averaged 30 mpg plus on a run. Really enjoyed the experience.

 

[psmart]

Don't want to hi-jack this thread but could you do a new thread and say why you feel this. Love to know the pro's and cons.

Dont think he's going to put up a good engineering reason! Ive spent since Christmas trawling German, American, Australian and UK forums/websites and like this forum, you do get failures and people shout loudly about it, but what becomes abundently clear is that its all down to the right fitter and choice of equipment. Anyone it seems can add gas (simple course), but the best sound like ex-Mercedes engineers (techies) for our particular Marque as they know the engines etc.

Im committing my new ML500 to a conversion and will put up all the photo's etc, but Im still not sure of the fitter I trust, waiting for previous customers to clarify on the 500 that they are perfectly happy.

The ML270, having owned one for 8 years from new and a shed load of experience from it, I'd recommend it, especially if you can do the repairs yourself (they are cheap, primarily as parts can be pricey, but labour rates are stupid). Just dont jump from a W164 500 into a W163 270, the 500 is pure cream in comparison! Ill do a review thread between them after getting a few more miles on the W164.

 

[truthfindergeneral]

Once again , in a nutshell.
Spent 6 months talking to various LPG conversion ' specialists " around the North West and Midlands. Settled for a bloke on Merseyside. Delivered him my V8 Disco 11 and £2,000. What followed was close to 18 months of misery and the spending of around another £600 as I went from one installer to another after losing faith in his ability to make the thing run correctly ( ie, engine managment light out , some sort of acceleration , more than 12mpg to the gallon of LPG ).
Boy you wouldn't believe the bullcrap I got from these so called professional and specialist conversion people. Everything from dirty gas to wearing the wrong shoes. They spouted crap like it was going out of fashion.
Then one day at expert number one thousand and one, who I found just miles from my front door by accident, all was revealed. The plenium chamber had fooled every one, inc the distributors of the LPG set up which I had purchased and who had sent their top man up twice to sort it ,as it had been piped up incorrectly.

That was put right and the difference was amazing.However, it still suffered from poor acceleration and lower top speed due to wrong sized pipes. I wasn't about to waste any more money on correcting the original lash up so I sold it. Thats another story by the way. try taking an LPG conversion to a main dealer of any make for part ex and watch as they fall about laughing. By then, LPG had risen from the 29p lt that attracted me to 49p lt and was still climbing.

I eventually moved my business in to the premises next door to the LPG conversion place that finally found the fault and became great mates of theirs.
Every week , they see a new face with an LPG conversion carried out by one of the N.Wests " LPGA approved conversion specialists " and you should hear the laughter. From badly fitted to death defying kits, they roll up with the same cry as I once had... " I've given up with the bloke that fitted it and tried loads of places but it won't run right........."

 

[istruggle2gate11]

Again, thanks for the replys.

The hunt is on this weekend! Very reasonable insurance quotes etc.

Hi & welcome I like this from your thread "build a special etc"
And your from Newark, Nottingham sounds like you must have done some P&D, Lincoln events.

Hi Kevin, Yep, just a throwaway comment - much easier than reminding myself of blood, sweat, tears, burns and a failing bank account!

I have not competed for a few years now as I run an offroad centre near to Scunthorpe http://www.korc.co.uk I mainly used to compete with East Midlands Off Road Club (emorc) trialing with the odd bout of comp safari, occasionally moving over to Lincs Land Rover or just playdays or long weekends at Toms farm in Wales etc. I have attended a few a peak and dukeries events in the distant past.

Still love the green oval for all its faults [yes, im a sucker for punishment] and my first love will always be the Rover V8 engine [so wrong on so many levels!]

One of the best modifications I have ever done was to fit a Megasquirt system [home built efi that replaces factory stock] allowing you to tune both fuel and spark mapping - using a wide band lambda and a laptop....losing the dizzy and have a real waterproof Rover V8!!!

 

[psmart]

istruggle2gate11 - sorry for the hijacking of the thread, 5K might not buy you a facelifted (2002->) ML W163, so aim for the best 2000-2001 model, or if you see one of the facelifted models, better still. If you get one registered before March 2001 then your VED is down to 195 as opposed to 400++!

Once again , in a nutshell....

I've read quite a few reports about poor fitters etc (in Germany and UK) and I completely sympathize. Hence my remarks about looking for a fitter who has worked on Mercs and who can provide satisfied customers whom you can reference.

I too had a less than happy LPG conversion experience, but fortunately not with a car. ie. Ordered a new Dometic 4000HG 4Kw Gas generator on the motorhome when new, supplier originally said there werent any available, then a little later changed their mind. To cut it short, a Dometic 4000H was installed with Gas conversion no doubt done by Fred fitter. The whole generator was poorly installed suspension wise etc and took 30seconds of cranking to fire, sent vibrations running through the motorhome and if you got anywhere near 3-4Kw load, the motor would die because the electronics couldnt keep up the desired 3000RPM at load.

After 2 visits and nothing happened, I completely gave up on 'Service' departments for Motorhomes and with the aid of the Chief Engineer from Leeds University we removed the generator, re-did the seatings, removed the choke, wired the choke solenoid with modified linkage to the accelerator (the engine always tried starting at full throttle) so that when the choke button was engaged, it dragged the throttle to ~1/2 way mark, modified the pipeing and tuned the regulator (pipe length etc is very critical, we got some very interesting pulsing etc with wrong pipe diameter/length).

End story, generator fired first time, ran to rated 4Kw and was less noisy!

Probably something Indies could get involved with, they know there cars, and would no doubt have little trouble getting LPGA approval!

 

[kebo57]

One of the best modifications I have ever done was to fit a Megasquirt system [home built efi that replaces factory stock] allowing you to tune both fuel and spark mapping - using a wide band lambda and a laptop....losing the dizzy and have a real waterproof Rover V8!!!

Hi I know that mod, a friend of mine win the National CCV and just about every other CCV he's entered with a 4.6 with that Megasquirt system.

I really rate the ML 270 one of the best aspects is the handling on road, I had agro from a v6 Suzuki through country lanes & managed to open up a gap but I was on the edge, similar with motorway high speed cornering you can follow the P38's when they are flat out, you’ve got 10 mph left pass'em into a bend look back on the straight and they're 1/4 of a mile behind. Might not seem much but you can have a conversation with passengers at 90 mph, the heater works on start up, drive one and get back to us.

Kevin

 

[hawk20]

Once again , in a nutshell.
Spent 6 months talking to various LPG conversion ' specialists " around the North West and Midlands. Settled for a bloke on Merseyside. Delivered him my V8 Disco 11 and £2,000. What followed was close to 18 months of misery and the spending of around another £600 as I went from one installer to another after losing faith in his ability to make the thing run correctly ( ie, engine managment light out , some sort of acceleration , more than 12mpg to the gallon of LPG ).
Boy you wouldn't believe the bullcrap I got from these so called professional and specialist conversion people. Everything from dirty gas to wearing the wrong shoes. They spouted crap like it was going out of fashion.
Then one day at expert number one thousand and one, who I found just miles from my front door by accident, all was revealed. The plenium chamber had fooled every one, inc the distributors of the LPG set up which I had purchased and who had sent their top man up twice to sort it ,as it had been piped up incorrectly.

That was put right and the difference was amazing.However, it still suffered from poor acceleration and lower top speed due to wrong sized pipes. I wasn't about to waste any more money on correcting the original lash up so I sold it. Thats another story by the way. try taking an LPG conversion to a main dealer of any make for part ex and watch as they fall about laughing. By then, LPG had risen from the 29p lt that attracted me to 49p lt and was still climbing.

I eventually moved my business in to the premises next door to the LPG conversion place that finally found the fault and became great mates of theirs.
Every week , they see a new face with an LPG conversion carried out by one of the N.Wests " LPGA approved conversion specialists " and you should hear the laughter. From badly fitted to death defying kits, they roll up with the same cry as I once had... " I've given up with the bloke that fitted it and tried loads of places but it won't run right........."

Thanks for that. Useful warnings. I had heard a couple of times that LPG conversions are not flavour of the month with dealers when you want to part exchange.

 

[psmart]

Thanks for that. Useful warnings. I had heard a couple of times that LPG conversions are not flavour of the month with dealers when you want to part exchange.

http://autos.trovit.de/index.php/cod.search_cars/what_d.Mercedes LPG/
http://autos.trovit.de/index.php/cod.search_cars/what_d.Mercedes ML lpg/
LPG's sell at a premium in Germany over the standard Petrol car and generally seem to come with a 3 year all in warranty on engine/exhaust.

 

[truthfindergeneral]

I visited both a main dealer and several indies with my conversion and was offered two grand less than book price. They were scared to death of taking the car in and selling it on because it had been converted. Some were just scared witless ( or some other such substance ) by the idea that an aftermarket kit had been fitted and even after I produced all the relevant certificates and described in detail the fitting and the operation , they still had a look of ' please go away '. Sold it privately in the end for a knock down price just to be rid of it.

 

[Mrtibbs]

I too had a less than happy LPG conversion experience, but fortunately not with a car. ie. Ordered a new Dometic 4000HG 4Kw Gas generator on the motorhome when new, supplier originally said there werent any available, then a little later changed their mind. To cut it short, a Dometic 4000H was installed with Gas conversion no doubt done by Fred fitter. The whole generator was poorly installed suspension wise etc and took 30seconds of cranking to fire, sent vibrations running through the motorhome and if you got anywhere near 3-4Kw load, the motor would die because the electronics couldnt keep up the desired 3000RPM at load.

After 2 visits and nothing happened, I completely gave up on 'Service' departments for Motorhomes and with the aid of the Chief Engineer from Leeds University we removed the generator, re-did the seatings, removed the choke, wired the choke solenoid with modified linkage to the accelerator (the engine always tried starting at full throttle) so that when the choke button was engaged, it dragged the throttle to ~1/2 way mark, modified the pipeing and tuned the regulator (pipe length etc is very critical, we got some very interesting pulsing etc with wrong pipe diameter/length).

End story, generator fired first time, ran to rated 4Kw and was less noisy!

Probably something Indies could get involved with, they know there cars, and would no doubt have little trouble getting LPGA approval!

Hi
Just a quick note about motorhome service departments, from all that I have read on several websites there is no such thing, you must be mistaken
We have had several LPG generators fitted to RVs, usually Onan, but the one on our new coach is a Generac. They are good performers, very quiet (IMO) and hold their own in the power stakes.
HTH

Keith
Ps Sorry to add to the hijacking, unable to use the PM system ;-)