Please Help! C220CDi....Possibly Blown Turbo????

[simonjf]

Hi.
Having a problem with my 2000 (new shape) C220 CDI Auto Saloon.
Drove it to Spain on Friday and Saturday - Motorway driving all the way.
It was fine when we left UK, but just as we got to Paris we lost a lot of power.
Pulled into a service station where I noticed that the engine would not rev beyond 3000rpm.
Turned the engine off and then back on again and the problem cleared with the engine revving beyond 3000rpm and the hint of a whistle from the turbo.
Once i put the car into gear and pulled off, once again, it would not rev beyond 3000rpm.
It is also really quite noisy (clattery and exhaust-boomy) at low speed in town or at the lights etc...

This pattern repeats and hasn't got any worse or better:

When stationary in park or neutral, will rev beyond 3000 rpm with turbo.

Pull off gently and engine stutters and kangaroos at around 2,500rpm blowing some (but not billowing) smoke; Pull off with foot to the floor and it pulls off from start cleanly but very slowly to 3000rpm in each gear, although you do have to shift the auto box manually.

Turn engine off and back on again and once again engine revs in neutral or park normally and turbo APPEARS to be functioning.....but is it really???

Called a very nice man at Mercedes Leicester as soon as the problem arose who wasn't sure what it was but was sure as long as no warning messages were appearing and that water and oil level and temperature were correct, it would be safe to continue.

We did and made it to Spain yesterday afternoon (with an interesting trip over the Pyranees given the 3000rpm limit!)

One thing I noticed this morning is that with the bonnet up and the car in park if you rev it gently up the range, at 2,500rpm the engine stutters and you get a puff of diesel smoke from the area to the right hand side of the engine (if you are sitting behind the wheel). It will climb beyond that point and, indeed, beyond that 3,000rpm limit as long as the car is stationary and in Park or Neutral.

Could this all be down to gas escaping before it gets to the turbo? Could it be simply down to a hole in the exhaust? Have I "done" my turbo?!?!?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Simon

 

[Ellsy Tanners]

Hi there,
It sounds very possible to me that you may have a particaily blocked catalitic converter, or pre cat. That would explain why you are going into emergancy running and getting no boast from your turbo.
See if you can see evidance of black some coming from the joint of the turbo to the pre cat. if its at all blocked the gas tries to escape here and leaves loads of black sootte traces,
Hope that points you in the right direction and you get home safely.

 

[jp williams]

Simon,I don`t know how long you are here in Spain for but the main MB dealer in Velez Malaga only charges labour at 45 euros per hour--it might be worth going to a main dealer.
Good luck
John

 

[uprightbrian]

The early 220 cdi cars are well known for bursting the intercooler. The replacement intercoolers are modified and much stronger. Last time I spoke to my local dealer they said that Mercedes U K had supplied 830 new ones in the last year. Maybe this is your problem.
Regards Brian.

 

[psmart]

Sounds very much like the pre-cat or the multi-way catalyst has collapsed, causing back-pressure, which in turn causes the Turbo to Pre-Cat clamp to break. The back-pressure wont allow the turbo to spin up to the correct speed to supply a suitable PSI boost for a given actuation value, so the ECU will see this as out of parameterisation and go into limp-home mode.

The black smoke on the left side of the engine is the key. It could simply be that the pre-cat to turbo clamp has broken and is rattling about, but more likely that a blockage has occured in one of the catalysts (or both if the break up is in the pre-cat and the bits have damaged to multi-way cat). Expensive, your looking at ~EUR450 for the pre-cat and similar for the multi-way cat, plus clamps and rings. If you can get it done in Spain, all the better as your mitigating the expensive parts cost against saved labour costs.

One thing to note though, having driven the mileage you have with the pre-cat to turbo clamp broken is the Boost Pressure Control Value Transducer air filter. This will have become completely caked in soot and if not cleaned (or replaced) you will get intermittent limp-home modes occurring, depending upon where the car is and atmospheric conditions. Ask them to replace or clean it.

The intercooler sounds quite plausible as well, but having black smoke on the left hand side of the engine (right if looking forward) is the giveaway.

 

[HJHPH]

Sounds very much like the pre-cat or the multi-way catalyst has collapsed, causing back-pressure, which in turn causes the Turbo to Pre-Cat clamp to break. The back-pressure wont allow the turbo to spin up to the correct speed to supply a suitable PSI boost for a given actuation value, so the ECU will see this as out of parameterisation and go into limp-home mode.

The black smoke on the left side of the engine is the key. It could simply be that the pre-cat to turbo clamp has broken and is rattling about, but more likely that a blockage has occured in one of the catalysts (or both if the break up is in the pre-cat and the bits have damaged to multi-way cat). Expensive, your looking at ~EUR450 for the pre-cat and similar for the multi-way cat, plus clamps and rings. If you can get it done in Spain, all the better as your mitigating the expensive parts cost against saved labour costs.

One thing to note though, having driven the mileage you have with the pre-cat to turbo clamp broken is the Boost Pressure Control Value Transducer air filter. This will have become completely caked in soot and if not cleaned (or replaced) you will get intermittent limp-home modes occurring, depending upon where the car is and atmospheric conditions. Ask them to replace or clean it.

The intercooler sounds quite plausible as well, but having black smoke on the left hand side of the engine (right if looking forward) is the giveaway.

I had the very same problem with my wife's Sports Coupe, Pre cat failed and blocked main cat, despite main dealer replacing main cat 2400 miles earlier. Exhaust was forcing it's way out around spring clamp. Cost was £1200 from main dealer but they eventually paid for the main cat plus labour. There are some threads around regarding unblocking of the main cat, not sure how successful this is.

 

[simonjf]

The Latest on "That" Problem!

Hi again.
Just wanted to say thank you very much for all of your help with my C220.

Booked it in and the diagnosis was indeed a blown intercooler (well done uprightbrian!).
Apparently it had rather a large whole in it. Cost is €250 (Euros) plus labour which seems rather reasonable. We'll see what the final bill is when it arrives!

Thanks again.

Simon

 

[Pipemaster]

is this a warranty issue then

As we have a 220CDi and the problem is a known one is it possible to have the thing changed under warranty or if not should it be changed as a precaution?

 

[psmart]

As we have a 220CDi and the problem is a known one is it possible to have the thing changed under warranty or if not should it be changed as a precaution?

Im still waiting for simonjf to get back with an exact list, because unless the exhaust smoke was a red herring (ie. it was somehow blowing via the EGR and back round and out through the intercooler) I think he may have more than 1 problem.

Unless Merc have made a recall on the Intercooler (we havent heard one on ours), then you'll just have to wait until it fails and claim on your warranty. If you dont think your warranty will cover it, look on Ebay pre-actively to source a cheap one, they are dead easy to change.

Our 06.02 220 is now covered with Mercs 10 year warranty and a Warranty Direct Platinum cover, but would be interesting to know when the bad batch went upto.