Please help! Television or Dec ref C180 Windows.

[4fold]

Hi There,
I posted a problem about my 98 C180 el. windows on 29-03-2008 and Television and Dec were kind enough to answer and suggest comfort unit 5 was the problem and that it was located in the boot near the battery. Well I eventually got around to it but I cant find anything that looks like the pic that dec posted, in fact I cant find anything at all. Could this unit be located elsewhere? Any suggestions appreciated.
Regards,
Ken.

 

[Aussie Nick]

Hi the designated members do not seem to be around at this time. I am sure they will shortly reply. Did you move the battery as suggested by Dec?

 

[television]

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=716.624&CT=F&cat=45H&SID=82&SGR=405&SGN=24

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
I was looking for the comfort relay on my C43 as the electric seats were meant to be fed via it, and I could,nt find it either, I have come to the conclusion that like mine your car does,nt have it fitted as they are face lift models.
My C230K has one as it is pre-facelift and it is fitted in the boot near the battery.
What was the problems with the windows? total/intermittent failure of all the windows? or just one of them?

 

[bigasotonuk]

I have just looked at thread which you posted originally and Dec's car is a pre face lift too.
When I could,nt find mine I tried to follow the coil supply cable of the seat relay which according to the wiring drawing I was following was fed from the comfort relay this ended up going back into the towards the front of the car.
I was speaking to a MB mechanic and he said that the only time he had a 202 with both electric seats inoperative it was a ignition switch problem which is where I believe the pink wire was going in my car, I,m wondering if this is where your windows are fed from, which may mean that you have a relay for the windows as well.
Are you sure the fuse is intact and making a good contact?

 

[4fold]

Thanks for replies.
I forgot to mention that the associated mirror also ceases to function when the window wont work.
Malcolm I appreciate the link and it seems to me that the cables are heading towards the rear of the car.
Since I have a facelift model as bigastonuk seems to think would the control module still be towards the rear or elsewhere?
Many Thanks,
Regards,
Ken.

 

[television]

30 and 35 look to be in the boot to me

That link was for a 202081 car late

 

[Dec]

Have you removed the battery?
Looking at the picture, the comfort unit is attached by 2 plastic nuts just below where it is seen on the picture, to the left of the beam it is sitting on in the picture.
If the battery is in place it is not possible to see the comfort unit as it is hidden behind the right side of the battery. (My battery has been removed in picture, the rusty tray where it sits is visible)

Dec

 

[4fold]

Thanks for reply Dec,
Yes I removed the battery and all the surrounding trim etc and all I can see is the vacuum pump assembly, fuse box and a small standard relay.
Regards,
Ken.

 

[television]

Can the OP put up the first 6 vin numbers.

Ignition switch failures are well know on all cars with the flip out key

 

[Dec]

Hi Ken

That’s odd, we have the same car, it should be in the same place but then yours is a much later date. You could go to a dealer and ask where exactly it is located in the car or you could look for it yourself (or as Malcolm suggests) by putting your VIN number (outside bottom of windscreen) in HERE and follow the links. The window motor and the mechanism together, are called a Window Regulator, the are all one unit and can’t be separated.

It might help to tell you of my experiences of window motors.
I bought my car about three and a halve years ago, the day after I bought it, the driver window motor played up, I brought it back to where I bought it, the “got it going again” but after a few days it played up once more, eventually the replaced it with a new regulator.

A few months later the front passenger window plays up, same symptoms as before and as yourself, so I had it replaced at the dealer.

Some time after that, the driver’s side, back window, started to give trouble, again intermittently, I replaced that one myself.

Then the back passenger window came out in sympathy and started to give trouble as well so I replaced that too.
Now all 4 windows work and are completely trouble free. In my case, the window motor trouble had nothing whatsoever to do with fuses, switches, relays, comfort control unit, or broken wiring going into the doors. However these things should be checking out initially because you should always try the simple things first.

I believe that when a window motor starts to give trouble, it will eventually die, it will tease and confuse you by working some of the time, and other times will stop part way up or part way down, you will fiddled with this and you fiddled with that, then suddenly the motor will work again so you then think that you have cracked the problem, then a few days later the motor will go faulty again. The motors seem to have this uncanny ability to break down in pairs, around about the same time, just like yours.

You will check this and you will check that, you will be convinced that because two windows are giving trouble at the same time that there must be a common fault somewhere, I think, and this is only my opinion, that when the window motor get to around 10 years old, the are nackered, due to the environment that the live in, it gets very wet inside the door, or, and I think this is a more likely cause, is weakening, over time, of the springs that hold the brushes on to the commutator, causing arc’ing between the brushes and the commutator

I took the faulty motor apart and cleaned it up, there were score lines around the commutator which I think was caused by arc’ing . It is now working again but I would not trust it again and would not put it back into a car, as I do believe it will fail again shortly after fitting.

I don’t think anyone has ever come back, at least not to my knowledge, with a conclusive answer or solution as to why these motors fail in this intermitted fashion. Anyone I have heard of with window motor trouble eventually had to replace the regulator with a new one.

This is only my opinion, don’t go off buying new regulator until you have investigated every other possible cause.


Dec

 

[Dec]

Hi Ken

The window motor and the mechanism together, are called a Window Regulator, the are all one unit and can’t be separated.

Correction, it seems the front motors are separate from the mechanism, see HERE it is the back that can’t be separated.

The control unit is number 5 HERE

Dec

 

[Aussie Nick]

I would have to agree with Dec about the longterm effect of moisture on electric motors.
In Australia this is less of a problem. My 202 which is I think a bit younger then Dec's has exibited no signs of window motor failure. Further there are no signs of any rust around the base of the battery, none at all. Of course this is a drier climate than yours and has its own challenges in the form of extreme heat and dust.
I have known of window motor failures on 202s here as well but they appear to be quite rare.
The other problem which is probably relevant is the fact that both the Uk and Ireland are Island countries and there is always going to be a certain amount of salt contamination of the air particles. High salt concentration is anathema to any motor vehicle and may also explain some of the rust issues associated with European cars.

 

[4fold]

Hi Malcolm,
The first 6 characters of VIN are WDB 202.
The key I have is not a flip out type. I think its referred to as DAS type i.e. a plastic unit which has 3 buttons, lock, unlock and boot and what looks like an infra-red lens at the end. A slim metal key which slides into the side of it.
Regards,
Ken.

 

[4fold]

Hi Dec,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have a contact in the local Merc dealer but I dont want to wear him out yet. I'll remove one of the front window motors soon and check the brushes and comm. Whats really confusing me is if I dont use the central locking things last longer before going wrong but do wrong eventually. Looking at your link could this comfort unit be part of the vacuum pump module.

Thanks also to Aussie Nick, wish we had your good weather.

Regards,
Ken.

 

[television]

Hi Malcolm,
The first 6 characters of VIN are WDB 202.
The key I have is not a flip out type. I think its referred to as DAS type i.e. a plastic unit which has 3 buttons, lock, unlock and boot and what looks like an infra-red lens at the end. A slim metal key which slides into the side of it.
Regards,
Ken.

Its the numbers after the 202 that I need. As you have a DAS key forget the switch I think

 

[4fold]

Sorry Malcolm,

WDB2020182f7.

 

[television]

Sorry Malcolm,

WDB2020182f7.[/QUOTOK that link I put up was for the 018

I will see if I can find anything useful

 

[television]

The control module is in the doors front at the top between the handle and the hinge

 

[4fold]

Thanks Malcolm,

When I get at these control units is there any repair/adjustment/testing possible or do I have to replace them? (I'll also check the motors as I'm at it).

I wont have time to check this out for a few days, I'll get back to you as soon as I know anything.

Many Thanks,

Ken.