Problem Paint work

[garys]

I own an E240 Avantguarde which I bought new in 1998. Its a nice car with leather and AMG alloys and suspension. It cost a few bob but has been worth it, as it looks the business and has looked after me for 95k miles so far (mostly on the motorway) with not so much as a hiccup.

Sadly I can't say the same for the paint work. I had a new boot lid fitted about a year ago for corrosion around the boot lock and I am getting a new offside wing fitted next week for the same thing (corrosion around the indicator lense) Its all well and good that these have/are being replaced under warranty, but it concerns me that such an expensive car actually needs it doing.

To make matters worse it would appear that the paintwork doesn't seem to have any resilience whatsoever. In fact the paintwork seems to be thinner than the gold plate on Arthur Daleys watch. There are rust spots on just about every panel. The slighest stone chip seems to penetrate to bare metal.

I've had many cars over the years including Ford, Vauxhall and BMW and I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like this. I have also polled our fleet cars and its a similar story - stone chippings but only down to the primer level, not many getting through to the metal.

This brings me on to my question; Can anyone tell me what the anti corrosion warranty actually is ? My local dealer, from whom I bought the car, isn't very helpful and is dismissive of my claims. Has anyone else had this problem and did they get any joy in getting it sorted? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[GregE240]

Gary,

If it makes you feel any better my 1998 (silver) 240 Avantgarde is exactly the same. I've got stonechips on the bonnet and offside wing that are starting to rust - I've covered them with clear nail varnish until I can get a more permanent fix sorted out. My nearside wing sounds the same as yours - not rust as such but what looks like black bubbles in the paint. Additionally, the front grille looks like its been shot, the lacquer is in a right mess - not sure what to do - just bite the bullet and get the damn thing resprayed or tey and fix it myself.

Its a shame because its the only thing about the car I don't like. Otherwise, like yours it has been as reliable as a Swiss watch and as silent as a funeral procession on the motorway.

How did you get yours done under warranty? Did a dealer agree or did you have to write to MB UK?

 

[garys]

Greg
Incidentally my car is Silver also....
The problem boot lid and offside wing both had bubbles underneath the paintwork and the dealer referred the "known problem" to Mercedes who authorised replacement of the parts.
Give it a shot ...you've got nothing to lose.
By the way, I'm writing a letter of complaint to Mercedes regarding the poor condition of the paintwork - I'll let you know how I fare.

 

[Arnie]

I came across your posting, while looking for topics on the subject of corrosion. I must say that I tend to agree with your comments on MB paintwork being so poor. I think that since they changed to water-based paints in 1996, things have gone down hill.

Last year I gave in to the temptation to buy a used SL320 (R129) from an MB dealer at a very knock-down price (in fact, when I came to paying they tried to change their mind about selling it.) Anyway, the car was previously owned by Daimler Chrysler UK, had 6k miles on the clock and was about a year old.

I have only used the car during the summer, keeping it in a dry garage during winter. The car, therefore, could not have spent more than one winter subject to the UK's winter salt spray.

A few weeks ago, I was giving it a good clean, and noticed what looked like corrosion on the lower AC radiator support. I decided to remove the auxiliary fans and front cross-members to get to it. It turned out to be pretty severe and worse still, when removing the various components, I was surprised to see flaking undercoat and rust spots on the underside of most of the front panels (where the surface is not painted with the top-coat). Additionally, there were paint blisters on the painted-over chassis-plate at the front of the car. As this was not riveted and merely held on by two small screws, I ventured to remove it to see what was underneath. The blisters on the plate were caused by corosion whch had eaten right through the aluminium, but which had also worked through in the other direction and eaten quite a bit through the steel chassis, let-alone the paint.

Anyway, there were also many other items in the engine compartment (mostly galvanised bright-metal), including coolant pipes, fasteners and brackets that had also caught a severe dose of rust.

The MB dealer gave the normal excuses about it all being normal and mentioned that I would need to get an afidavit from a solicitor for a new chasis plate, if available.

I figured that in any case, they would probably not replace parts that had not rusted through completely so I spent the last four days carefully sanding, cleaning and repainting all the affected parts (the chassis plate will be replaced with a brass-one- easy as the original had no MB logos or anything).

The point here is that, while I appreciate that new production methods have to be more environmentally-friendly (water-based paints etc), it seems that today's environment is not friendly to MB's adopted engineering practises.

In my opinion the various protective coatings on the metal are way too thin to resist the elements, especially if my experience is with a car that has had no more than one winter on the road.

 

[stoporishoot]

this all sounds familiar

O.K., I have owned from new a silver 1998 E300TD Avantgarde,

In Nov 2002 I noticed a "bubbling" in the laquer around the bootlock.
I took it to my dealership and they basically said "yep, dead common, no problem, its a warranty job. We'll be in touch.........
Six weeks later I was washing my car and noticed to my horror the paintwork was lifting and rusting around the drivers side front wheel arch and just above the bumper. I went back to dealer and got the Service Manager out to look and to explain why the boot lock had not been sorted. He took photos and told me it was definately warranty work.
Within a week it had been taken into the body shop and sorted.
These waterbased paints are rubbish, also the robots that paint the cars dont know when they miss....Merc used to dip the cars in loads of different coatings before painting.
Another thing to add though....has anyone had the pipe going into the backbox on the exhaust break yet???? Thats another extremely common fault, £250 + £50 fitting, my motor has only done 39,000 miles so I took it off and got it welded for a fiver. £ 34,000 for a car that rots quicker than a skoda and the exhaust falls off........

 

[paulE230]

Try looking at my postings.

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1962&highlight=

 

[dieselman]

Arnie

Take you car into the dealer. The paintwork warranty will cover the rust on the radiator support panel, mine was done two years ago.

The way the MB paint warranty seems to work is that if the corrosion is due to bubbling under the paint and cannot be attributed to external damage, eg stone chips, scratches, you will have a valid claim.

The panel does not have to rot right through!

Stoporishoot.

You are correct about the rust around the boot lock being common. It is all due to the car being pressed from pre-galvanised sheet. Then any holes that are required are punched in the steel, hence no galvanising at all edges. The paint is then sprayed very thinly so doesn't adequately cover the sharp edges. Great idea--NOT!

I too have had the exhaust rear box break off and as you I have welded it as the rest of the rear section is solid.

 

[Arnie]

Dieselman,

Next time (!) I'll try Mercedes again to sort any rust, but on this occasion, as the dealer was not too forthcoming, I tackled it myself. Most of the affected areas did not have any top-coat and so I "sanded" the rusty spots down to bare metal, applied one coat of a professional metal-etching primer, followed by four coats of a zinc primer/undercoat. Let it all dry and then coated in hot WaxOyl. Also, similarly, I mannaged to fix the rusty area that was underneath the small aluminium ID plate on the front chassis cross member, without touching the surrounding top-coat. The new (brass) plate is now screwed back on with a layer of clear silicone sealant between it and the repainted chassis beneath. This should help keep the salt-spray out. A lot of the galvanised metal brackets etc (that would not have been under the body warranty anyway) were also de-rusted and painted. Then, I also replaced a number of rusty nuts bolts at the front of the car with A4-grade strainless steel ones. As you can imagine, all this took me quite some time, but at least I'm happy that it's done right.

Actually, I was surprised to note that while BMW apply waxoyl-type stuff to the bonnet cavities and recessed areas around the front of the car, Mercedes do not (??).

 

[garys]

problem paintwork

Well well well.....I've just discovered that my local dealership have lost all record of my claim and I'm back to square one !

They need my car back again for a full inspection to kick off the whole process once again. Strange that they have no record of my original claim when two of their staff told me that the claim was progressing and should be sorted in two weeks.

To make matters worse the back part of the exhaust fell off the other day - two weeks after a full service !!!

As the song says "things can only get better "

BMW here I come !

 

[dieselman]

Don't jump too soon.

Recently I was shown a '98 5 Series that has been loved by it's owner. This car has all the body, lights and wheels updates to make it look like a '02/'03 car and hardly any stone chips.
The owner admits to spending several hours cleaning and polishing every week.

Unfortunately it is going into the local BMW dealer for a new bootlid, for guess what,..inside-out rust.

 

[wagamama]

Gary,

If it makes you feel any better my 1998 (silver) 240 Avantgarde is exactly the same. I've got stonechips on the bonnet and offside wing that are starting to rust - I've covered them with clear nail varnish until I can get a more permanent fix sorted out. My nearside wing sounds the same as yours - not rust as such but what looks like black bubbles in the paint.

GregE240,

I have a cluster of black dots on the drivers side door, near the edges, and it's sort of lifting up, so I can plainly press the bubbles down. don't know what that is exactly, but from reading posts it seems as though, it's rusting? Is this rust? because I'd doesn't look like it!

 

[Arnie]

A mastic sealing bead is applied along the door weld-seams running round the inside edge of the door. If this is bubbling then it's nothing to worry about, but if its on the solid metal then it's r...

 

[garys]

Well the full paint inspection has now been carried out complete with paint depth tests and digital photographs. I made sure I was present throughout and was quite surprised at how comprehensive the chap was.

The nett result is that he has submitted a claim for two new wings and a new bonnet. His general feeling is that I have a good chance of getting it approved but, as he is an independant assessor and its not his decision, its not guaranteed.

An interesting point was the result of the paint depth test. The average reading was 75-80 for the whole car with the exception of the boot lid. This had already been replaced due to corrosion and the reading on the new lid was 120-125 on average. On the face of it this is quite a difference (50% higher) - but not being a technical person I'm not sure of the relevance of each reading. Maybe someone out there could explain what they mean ?

I'll keep you posted on progress.....

 

[Arnie]

Hi,

Never heard of a paint-depth gauge before, but looked one up to find this:

http://www.carwashwarehouse.com/ECP2400.php

presumably, your readings were in micro-metres (um), in which case, as a rough guide 50 um is about the thickness of an average hair.

 

[dieselman]

The standard paint depth should be 70-100 um. A paint sprayer will achieve a thickness of typically 125um, hence the extra thickness on the bootlid.
My own car was measured at 50-60um. OOh a bit thin.

The depth guages all work on magnetism, so the paint thickness reduces the attraction proportionally to the thickness. They don't work on aluminium for obvious reasons, but it means your dealer can demonstrate the aluminium panels on a new E class. Bonnet, front wings, boot lid.

 

[garys]

A Result !!!

I thought I should let you know the replacement wings and bonnet have been approved and I will be picking up my "new car" in the next few days in pristine condition.

Credit where its due - Well done Mercedes for restoring the faith......

 

[2swift4u]

Well i got a dark red E300TD and have not had any problem with paint work or the exhaust i think it is only common on the silver cars

 

[270fam]

Curious, I have a 12 month old ML270 I've had from new - 8000 miles so far. It's silver and yes I am surpised at how readily the bonnet has succumbed to paint chips. A few of the chips are down to bare metal with no visible sign of the metal being dented in the process. Not very good really. I expect a MB to remain pristine longer than other cars and to be of a robust finish. Perhaps this is an issue with silver paint - MB's hallmark no less.

 

[dieselman]

It's not down to Silver paint, the other colours suffer just as much.

 

[Norman Falkiner]

RUSTING MERCEDES.

I have two Mercs at present and have owned others. Not one has had a rust problem but a friend of mine has a c280 that started showing rust at less than two years old. the car is now nearly four years old and is now virtually unsaleable. This is serious RUST. Mercedes in Melbourne said that it was the harse conditions the car was subjected to and ducked for cover. His previous two Mercedes that lived in the same environment were showing no signs of rust when sold. We are talking about Melbourne here with very benign conditions, no salt on roads etc. A highly qualified expert has reported the problem appears to have arisen prior to the car being painted. Looks like it is on its way to court. Anyone out there heard of anything like this or is it a one off? Regards