R230 ABC leak suspects

[Conor]

Hey guys,

My R230

So I had some pretty full on driving around wind-y roads at the weekend. This morning I noticed a very minor damp patch under the arch liner od front passenger seat.

Turned on car and raised manually. Receives ABC Visit Workshop in white (not red).

ICarsoft shows an ABC error worded like "malfunction generating pressure".

Would I be correct in saying that given the location its either the front valve block or tandem pump. Pump was replaced about 5 years ago I think. Not many miles. I changed the ABC fluid about 5k miles ago (if even)

Any input welcome

Cheers.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Hey guys,

My R230

So I had some pretty full on driving around wind-y roads at the weekend. This morning I noticed a very minor damp patch under the arch liner od front passenger seat.

Turned on car and raised manually. Receives ABC Visit Workshop in white (not red).

ICarsoft shows an ABC error worded like "malfunction generating pressure".

Would I be correct in saying that given the location its either the front valve block or tandem pump. Pump was replaced about 5 years ago I think. Not many miles. I changed the ABC fluid about 5k miles ago (if even)

Any input welcome

Cheers.

If you have a low pressure warning it’s the pump. Does your code scanner give live data? A healthy pump should be in the 150-180 bar region. Anything below 120ba will start to see white warnings, the system shuts down (lock valves close on all struts) below 80ba.

 

[Conor]

If you have a low pressure warning it’s the pump. Does your code scanner give live data? A healthy pump should be in the 150-180 bar region. Anything below 120ba will start to see white warnings, the system shuts down (lock valves close on all struts) below 80ba.

Thanks a lot for that Craig.

I have been out doing some investigation this evening, but it got a little late in the night to hold the RPM above 3k (Guided tests).

Anyway, I went through a number of the tests and they seemed ok.

So..

* The level of oil was a little low, so I gave it 500ml which took it to just below the lower mark (engine on, engine was running). The fluid is a nice green.
* The pressure stabilises around 190 Bar at ABC idle, which seems good.
* In the Rodeo test, the pressure dipped to between 100-130 depending on the actuation at the time.
* I had a look for leaks during the Rodeo - the pump doesn't appear to be leaking. If you stand in front of the car looking at it and down into engine bay.. to the right hand side, and under the radiator there is a wet patch. It looks like a steering line, but could also be the line going from the valve body to the front driver side strut.
* During rodeo I noticed that when the front driver side strut is raising the car it creaks. No other strut did that.
* After rodeo I got the following error codes:
* * System pressure too low
* * Malfunction in pressure supply

Bit odd really, in that the system can generate pressure and hold it, yet there is a pressure malfunction.. now thinking out loud here. Seems that the system can hold pressure at idle, but when raising or lowering via the car dash buttons, it trips the code. This leads me to believe that a seal in the valve block is broken, and when the valves are opened up to actuate the car, it leaks fluid and drops the pressure, firing the code..?

I am going to check out EPC now to see what parts are located around the wet patch. Tomorrow I will run through the guided test, fully.

EDIT: Right... after some digging it looks like the front valve block is exactly (or close enough) to the wet patch. (The component in diagram is y36/1) .. I wonder could it also be (14) pressure reservoir.

Feels like the next port of call would be to whip it out and rebuild it (seals).

To be sure though, i'll get under it clean up the mess and have an assistant actuate the ABC from inside the car.. should see a dribble somewhere.

 

[ajlsl600]

On mine there was sign of pipe sweating, behind p/s front wheel, liner out looked. Changed pipe 90quid sorted there is a valve block up in there so chance of seals gone if u only topped up a little. Wheel off liner out, investigate, before u become pedestrian methinks

 

[Conor]

On mine there was sign of pipe sweating, behind p/s front wheel, liner out looked. Changed pipe 90quid sorted there is a valve block up in there so chance of seals gone if u only topped up a little. Wheel off liner out, investigate, before u become pedestrian methinks

Thanks Aj, yes need to get a look in there for sure.

 

[Conor]

So.. I had a look this morning. I had moved the car last evening from it's normal spot. There was only the slightest spec of oil on the ground...despite all the gyrations of the ABC last night. Compares to a bit larger spec where its usually parked.

So.. that leads me to believe it might very well be the PAS piping as opposed to the valve block.

Many thanks for the tip Aj. I'll report back when I have a chance to look.

As always, many thanks and your collective input is appreciated.

 

[LostKiwi]

A couple of things here Conor.
1. Power steering and ABC are separate systems. A leak on power steering won't cause low ABC.
2. You're still getting pressure issues. If pressure is ok but dropping under rodeo it could be an accumulator or pump.
3. 500ml is a lot to add. If the pump ran dry it could be toast.

 

[Craiglxviii]

If the pump output is dropping from 180 >> 120bar during rodeo then there’s something off. The sensor for that is mounted on the pump itself and that’s running at engine speed + it’s own pressure regulating valve. So it sounds like the pump has issues when placed under severe load.

 

[Conor]

If the pump output is dropping from 180 >> 120bar during rodeo then there’s something off. The sensor for that is mounted on the pump itself and that’s running at engine speed + it’s own pressure regulating valve. So it sounds like the pump has issues when placed under severe load.

So I see where you are coming from but I don't understand it. It stands to reason that if the pump is running at constant pace and you load up the system that the pressure would drop. Isn't that why when you operate hydraulics on heavy machinery that the engine revs up to be able to maintain the pressure.

In any case, I did find this mention in STAR in the context of a rodeo test. I'm incline to run with this unless I get some consistent evidence of a fault pump. Mainly because I ain't rushing out to replace the pump LMAO.

A couple of things here Conor.
1. Power steering and ABC are separate systems. A leak on power steering won't cause low ABC.
2. You're still getting pressure issues. If pressure is ok but dropping under rodeo it could be an accumulator or pump.
3. 500ml is a lot to add. If the pump ran dry it could be toast.

Hey mate..

1. Ok, fair enough.. makes sense. It's just the pump, that's shared. I did wonder alright.
2. See the STAR note above, I don't think there is an issue with the pump anyway, for now.
3. Actually, I didn't top it up fully with the 500. It took another 250ml the following day :O

So.. on Saturday I did manage to spend more time on the car. I ran two rodeo tests.. the first through up a few errors relating to pressure malfunction and also fault in component front left and right suspension strut blocking valve.

The second rodeo went OK and gave no errors at all. In fact I gave the car a good spin on Sunday, and raised/lowered the car a load of times throughout, and no error. Right now, i'm inclined to thing that perhaps the solenoids (or something) in the valve blocks were acting a little funny (stuck perhaps) and have been straightened out via the rodeo/driving.

Obviously that is best case scenario and wishful thinking, but in the absence of further errors I'm going to roll with it for now, and keep an eye on.

Regarding the leak. I did find two places that were weeping in the valve block. I say weep, as I could see green. But even throughout the rodeo sessions, I didn't see any fluid budge - I had the wheel arch liner off.

I must say that when I first took off the arch liner I thought there was a massssssive leak, as there was oil absolutely all over the piping and general area. It soon dawned on me that all this oil was after a mishap when I previously flushed the system. While I mention this last, I did actually open up first and clean it all up before I ran rodeo, so I could observe for leaks.

The whole area is cleaned up now. Over the coming weeks I will be keeping an eye on fluid level and later get a look inside again to see what is going on. Right now I wonder if the heat of engine was causing the old mess to run??

 

[ajlsl600]

If the pump output is dropping from 180 >> 120bar during rodeo then there’s something off. The sensor for that is mounted on the pump itself and that’s running at engine speed + it’s own pressure regulating valve. So it sounds like the pump has issues when placed under severe load.

Reg valve misbehaving my bet if running 190.as that demonstrates pump capable of req press, which suggests pump itself behaving.

 

[LostKiwi]

So I see where you are coming from but I don't understand it. It stands to reason that if the pump is running at constant pace and you load up the system that the pressure would drop. Isn't that why when you operate hydraulics on heavy machinery that the engine revs up to be able to maintain the pressure.

In any case, I did find this mention in STAR in the context of a rodeo test. I'm incline to run with this unless I get some consistent evidence of a fault pump. Mainly because I ain't rushing out to replace the pump LMAO.

View attachment 78174



Hey mate..

1. Ok, fair enough.. makes sense. It's just the pump, that's shared. I did wonder alright.
2. See the STAR note above, I don't think there is an issue with the pump anyway, for now.
3. Actually, I didn't top it up fully with the 500. It took another 250ml the following day :O

So.. on Saturday I did manage to spend more time on the car. I ran two rodeo tests.. the first through up a few errors relating to pressure malfunction and also fault in component front left and right suspension strut blocking valve.

The second rodeo went OK and gave no errors at all. In fact I gave the car a good spin on Sunday, and raised/lowered the car a load of times throughout, and no error. Right now, i'm inclined to thing that perhaps the solenoids (or something) in the valve blocks were acting a little funny (stuck perhaps) and have been straightened out via the rodeo/driving.

Obviously that is best case scenario and wishful thinking, but in the absence of further errors I'm going to roll with it for now, and keep an eye on.

Regarding the leak. I did find two places that were weeping in the valve block. I say weep, as I could see green. But even throughout the rodeo sessions, I didn't see any fluid budge - I had the wheel arch liner off.

I must say that when I first took off the arch liner I thought there was a massssssive leak, as there was oil absolutely all over the piping and general area. It soon dawned on me that all this oil was after a mishap when I previously flushed the system. While I mention this last, I did actually open up first and clean it all up before I ran rodeo, so I could observe for leaks.

The whole area is cleaned up now. Over the coming weeks I will be keeping an eye on fluid level and later get a look inside again to see what is going on. Right now I wonder if the heat of engine was causing the old mess to run??

View attachment 78175

View attachment 78176

I'd be inclined to get something on those rusty pipes. Even just grease.

You may have had air in the system if it was that low. Doing rodeo tests has possibly shifted it.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Reg valve misbehaving my bet if running 190.as that demonstrates pump capable of req press, which suggests pump itself behaving.

Now that is a good point. Trouble is the valve is only available as part of the pump!

 

[Conor]

Reg valve misbehaving my bet if running 190.as that demonstrates pump capable of req press, which suggests pump itself behaving.

Now that is a good point. Trouble is the valve is only available as part of the pump!

Ok, I will admit to not knowing the inner workings of the pump, but I am going to leave this be for the moment and see how things play out over the next few hundred miles? I mean, if I am no longer getting error codes, the car drives fine, rodeo no problem and no leak, then is there really a problem?

I'd be inclined to get something on those rusty pipes. Even just grease.

You may have had air in the system if it was that low. Doing rodeo tests has possibly shifted it.

Yea it feels like the rodeo has helped. I will run another couple this weekend and see what comes up.

..And.. OMG yes. I forgot to mention those pipes - I was horrified when I saw them. I read somewhere that hydraulic fluid can become corrosive when mixed with water. I wonder if that happened or it's just age. In any case, I will get grease on soon (I wanted to let them dry after washing down). Later on I would like think I can take the pipes off, rust treat them and then paint with some epoxy mastic.

With the amount of pressure they run I will likely consider changing them out once my other projects are finished up and cash is flowing again.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Ok, I will admit to not knowing the inner workings of the pump, but I am going to leave this be for the moment and see how things play out over the next few hundred miles? I mean, if I am no longer getting error codes, the car drives fine, rodeo no problem and no leak, then is there really a problem?

Just something to be aware of. If the valve starts to stick it could throttle your pump output back to the point where the system shuts down.

 

[Conor]

O

Just something to be aware of. If the valve starts to stick it could throttle your pump output back to the point where the system shuts down.

OK, that's good to know.

 

[Craiglxviii]

O


OK, that's good to know.

And, as the pressure regulating valve is not available separately to the pump….

 

[ajlsl600]

These pumps and repair kits are avail now, for not silly money. Spray everything inside the arch liner with wd40 or ac 50 and put covers back that will slow, kill corrosion. Watch dat pump no run out of fluid. Keep 2 lt in car. See how u go for a while havin done rodeo perhaps dump filter incase it spat some shxxe back. its not a great system oil filtered in rtn line. Pressurised filter cost too much!!!!!! So wots in tank goes thru system.!! Rodeo cud have shifted sommat off a seating somewhere.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Tap the pressure regulating valve, it usually unsticks them. If not then the pump is weak. Raise and lower higher revs and see if it trips the codes.

ABC Pressure accumulators (labelled pressure reservoirs) on the diagram, when bad, will cause intermittent pressure supply issues. I have not seen bad accumulators generate a low pressure fault when raising the car at idle before.

 

[robertquantrell]

New SL R230 owner here and following along with this thread - slight sideways mini threadjack @Conor.....

which iCarsoft version do you have that can perform a rodeo? I just bought the MB V3.0 but can't see it in the menus? I assume i'm missing something?

Thanks and let us know how you get on! (it was your SL500 search thread that tipped me over the edge to buy mine!! )

 

[brandwooddixon]

New SL R230 owner here and following along with this thread - slight sideways mini threadjack @Conor.....

which iCarsoft version do you have that can perform a rodeo? I just bought the MB V3.0 but can't see it in the menus? I assume i'm missing something?

Thanks and let us know how you get on! (it was your SL500 search thread that tipped me over the edge to buy mine!! )

I'm not sure that there is. I think that its a STAR only function driving each strut independently. I've heard of members achieving much the same by raising and lowering the suspension using the cabin switch a dozen times or so.