Running-In Conundrum

[Sprint'n'Go]

I now have the opportunity to run-in a diesel engine a second time thanks to a Mercedes warranty replacement.

I have 2 decisions to make,

1, how should I drive during the running in period?

2, what oil should I use for topping up before the first service?

In relation to how to treat the new engine during the first few thousand miles I think the choices are-

*Drive it like I stole it from the word go.
*Drive it almost normally but without revving past 3000rpm if at all possible then gradually work it harder once it has 1000 miles under its belt for the next few 1000.
*Drive it like a Trilby wearing, 80 year old, Sunday driver with nowhere to go and no deadline to get there. Then change the oil at 1000 miles and gradually work it up to its full potential over the next few 1000.

Then for the oil top-ups which are necessary with all new diesels should I-

*use the hi-spec fully-synthetic oil I already have sat in the garage?
*go out and buy a reasonable but not too good mineral oil?

When I ran-in the original engine I drove as per the second option and used a mineral oil for top-ups which gave me an engine that looked good when it was finally stripped and used about 3ltrs for topping up between services(approx every 22-23k) once it passed 50k. What I want to know is can I do better??? as there is always someone who says "my car never uses a drop of oil between services"

The original engine ran in its first oil from new to the first service at 24.5k and didn't seem to suffer for this, although leaving it really went against the grain as I desperately wanted to do an oil change after the first 1000 miles. The dealer did the 1st and 2nd services and I then switched it to Mobil 1 TD for the 3rd and 4th. I assume the dealer only put in a mineral oil or at the best a semi-synth? All they wrote in the service book was BP.

At what point should I make the switch to fully-Synth?

Sorry this is such a long post but I am sure some of you will wade through it and give me your opinions.

 

[television]

some basic facts with running in, at all times keep the engine running light, change down early,avoid harsh accelleration, do not use engine braking, a couple of good long runs, are better than stop start.

Next.

Malcolm

 

[tom7035]

I agree completely with Malcolm, but we are of the 'old school'.
Many think modern engines should be run-in hard, otherwise (they say) the cylinders will glaze. Also that fully synth oil should not be used while running-in to allow (they say) bedding-in to occur.
Here we go.
I think I would still go with the makers' recommendations.

 

[panason1c]

My opinion...........Drive it 'normally' and dont be afraid to boot it to full revs if and whenever necessary!....Definately dont use synthetic, use a basic diesel oil, change it every 6k(approx)....switch to synthetic after 20/25k(approx).

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

I found this article which appears to have a useful section about Breaking in a diesel engine. www.difflock.com/diesel/diesel1.shtml

I am still planning on leaving the original oil in until the first service by the Assyst indicator (probably 23-24k) unless anyone comes up with a compelling reason to change it sooner.

The last 2 engines I have run-in seemed to magically loosen up and boost performance around the 45k mark.(psychological maybe?)

 

[Blobcat]

I would recommend mineral oil for the 1st 15-20,000 miles then switch to synthetic.
As per other posts don't labour the engine or leave it idling too long. Gradually build up the revs and occasionally using full throttle over 1st 500 miles.
I have read reports that hire cars are some of the best run in vehicles as they have so many different drivers and been driven in different ways. You could change your driving style as the variety will do the engine good. Although I can't recommend selecting 1st instead of 3rd at 50mph . Over-reving and valve bounce not good for long term reliability.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Any thoughts on the "my car never uses a drop of oil between services" scenario. Is it possible or are these people just not noticing the drop from max to min as the engine uses 1-2ltrs during a 6k service interval?

I always thought that my approx 3ltrs+ during 23k was reasonable but can I do better?

 

[996jimbo]

If the engine does not fail prematurely and provides all of its design performance then I guess the simple anwer is no, you cannot do better. You might achieve the same by a different running in procedure or do worse, but you can't do better.

3ltr of oil over 23k miles seems very reasonble to me.

Why was the engine replaced?

 

[Bolide]

Never used a drop of oil between services...

I think 23k is a ludicrously long time to leave between oil changes. I'd do it every 8 or 9k with a good semi-synth or full synth oil and as the engine's new I'd change it at 1000 miles then again at 3000 miles to get the crud out

My 250TD "Never used a drop of oil between services..." and that was changed every 6k miles

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Blobcat]

If engines are correctly run in then they can use almost no oil between services. I have only put in 1 ltr in my E320cdi in 88K miles apart from the normal 14-17K service oil changes.
However with certain manufacturers filling up with long life synthetic from new the engines do not always bed in and then use oil their whole life. Vauxhall, Saab and VW are getting bad for this. Their reasoning is that fleet managers want the long service intervals to keep running costs down. 1ltr per 1,000 miles is 'within manufactures guidelines sir' if you ask at the dealerships. You will effectively change the oil twice yourself in top ups at 20,000 mile servicing.

 

[tamrsoft]

I am one of those 'my car does not need topping-up between services' owners. My E220 CDi has 94K on the clock and has an oil/fliter service (fully-synth 5W40) every 6000 miles, the dipstick level is practically unchanged within this period. This isn't wishful thinking, its fact. Being the 2nd owner I do not know how it was run in but clearly the previous owner did an excellent job. A car that consumes 1-2 ltrs or more of oil between services seems wrong to me, think of the residue that is accumulating in the combustion chamber and valve ports from burning this amount of oil.

 

[Blobcat]

I am one of those 'my car does not need topping-up between services' owners. My E220 CDi has 94K on the clock and has an oil/fliter service (fully-synth 5W40) every 6000 miles, the dipstick level is practically unchanged within this period. This isn't wishful thinking, its fact. Being the 2nd owner I do not know how it was run in but clearly the previous owner did an excellent job. A car that consumes 1-2 ltrs or more of oil between services seems wrong to me, think of the residue that is accumulating in the combustion chamber and valve ports from burning this amount of oil.

I agree that 6,000 miles or 6 month changes are very good, however as a consequence of 6,000 miles changes you will not really notice if it is using any.
If it was using 1 ltr per 20,000 miles this equal 300mls per your 6,000 miles which would not really register.

 

[television]

I agree completely with Malcolm, but we are of the 'old school'.
Many think modern engines should be run-in hard, otherwise (they say) the cylinders will glaze. Also that fully synth oil should not be used while running-in to allow (they say) bedding-in to occur.
Here we go.
I think I would still go with the makers' recommendations.

Just read the Difflock running in bits, and its not to bad getting old, we are not that far out TOM.

Malcolm

 

[robbi-wan]

Given that the engine has been replaced under warranty (if i were you) i would follow the manufacturers advice to the letter: That way if it happens again - you are in a stronger position..

By the way - mine has not needed a drop of oil in +10k (130k and going)
rob

 

[Parrot of Doom]

My opinion on running an engine in is to allow it to warm as normal, never exceeding 3000RPM (but I do that anyway on any engine) until its warm. Then while driving, just drive normally, occasionally booting it. Just keep the revs at different speeds rather than at a constant rpm.

I've heard it said that an engine 'run-in' too lightly will consume more oil than it should, because of glazing of the bores.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Hi Guys, thanks for all the comment so far.

Would I be right in saying that the general consensus on running-in is to be prudent with the accelorator but not overly cautious and use mineral oil for top ups(I am assuming that that is what is already in there?)

In answer to the question of what killed the previous engine, it's a bit of a funny tale.........

On the trip that the van went past the 100k mark it broke. i.e the alternator developed a rumble(something to do with a clutch/bearing? built into the alternator pulley). So I drove straight to Mercedes and three of us(service manager, mechanic and myself) stood in front of the engine carefully listening to it. I took this opportunity to enquire about a faint ticking noise from the front of the engine, it has always done it, I think I originally noticed it around the 20k mark and it has never worried me. The mechanic then listened closer. "Oh, that ticking noise” says he, "I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't mentioned it." We all decide it's most likely to be the primary fuel lift pump, nothing to worry about. They then fixed the alternator the same day and I am a happy bunny again.
The next working day, less than 150 miles later, the con-rod on number 1 cylinder suddenly failed and voila, 1 new engine under warranty.

I now ask myself was the ticking from the front of the engine related after all? It has almost certainly been audible from very early in the vehicles life but never got worse and could only be heard at tick over. 3 people listened to the engine shortly before the failure and there was no suggestion of what was about to happen.

Did the extra long service intervals play a part? I had the oil from a service at 89k analysed by 2 separate companies and both said the oil was still useable and wear metals were present in normal allowable amounts. So it would appear not, in fact it looks as though the assyst counter is quite conservative and oil changes should be more like every 30k. I started out in the transport business with a secondhand 1986 307D van which required servicing every 4k and did 30k/pa so modern long service intervals are not accepted lightly. As I have said in a separate thread, when the broken engine was stripped there was no evidence of wear in the bores with the factory honing being unmarked (also no glazing) DOES THIS MEAN I WAS TOO GENTLE WITH IT WHEN RUNNING-IN? Frustratingly they did not dismantle the bottom of the engine as they saw enough to condemn it with just the head off. I would have loved to have seen the broken component and know exactly how it failed.

As I cover 40k/pa in this van I should soon have the results of how successful my running-in has been and will be sure to report back to you all.

Incidentally is the new engine warranted to the end of the 3 years(a few months away) or for 12 months?

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

Also, how do I get one of those cool little picture next to my username in each post(an avatar?) I can see nothing obvious in the control panel. I would love to put a pic of my pride n joy.

Cheers.

 

[Blobcat]

I think you need to have at least 25 posts for the Avatar option. I'm sure you will get there soon.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

oops, there's another one. Heehee.

 

[television]

Also, how do I get one of those cool little picture next to my username in each post(an avatar?) I can see nothing obvious in the control panel. I would love to put a pic of my pride n joy.

Cheers.

A very light tapping is normally a little end noise. Answer this and you will have 13 postings.

Malcolm