Should road tax be moved onto fuel ?

[merc7]

The joke the will be taxing fresh air soon is fast becoming a reallity?

It is in place already co2 emission on cars

 

[st4]

The car next to my house covers 10x my annual mileage, so stands to reason he creates more damage than me, but as he has a slightly smaller engine he pays less road tax than I do

But he does pay more tax than you. He does 10x more miles and say his car uses 20% less fuel. Ergo he pays 8fold more tax than you in the form of VAT and fuel duty.

A fairer method of "road tax" is to tax cars on mass, as its the mass of the vehicle that is proportional to the wear and tear on the roads. The amount of carbon dioxides is irrelevent, they are very light and don't damage the road. Heavy buses, lorries, do. Fuel duty is a self administering driving tax....

However heavier vehicles will use more fuel, and the more they are driven means more fuel used so more to the exchequer.

Work out how much fuel you use/yr. Multiply the total cost of it by 0.70 and you'll have the figure in what you pay in tax in the form of fuel duty + VAT. The VED of the car will pale into insignificance. I'd rather they just scrapped VED altogether, and left the price of fuel alone unless they feel the need to cut it (which they ought to).

On a seperate note for the future once cars are battery powered or H2 fuel cell things can go on as they did. No need for spy boxes, tolls etc. Thats a government ploy to a) charge more b) spy c) raise public sector employment and hence votes to make those indebted to them. No domestic power supply will realistically be able to charge a cars battery, so there will be special charging stations. No doubt the leccy can be taxed more, or the battery will be taxed. H2 funnily enough can be taxed the same as fuel is just now...

 

[television]

Batteries are very heavy,,and could be very expensive to replace in 3-5 years time

 

[st4]

Batteries are very heavy,,and could be very expensive to replace in 3-5 years time

Yes, but minus the weight of an internal combustion engine, gearbox and liquid fuel there is about 200kg more mass in a battery car which does without all these things. This will reduce in time as the energy density of batteries increases with technology. Then there is the spinning flywheel hybrid system which can be used to deliver additonal power when needed meaning the batteries don't have to be excessively large.

Bear in mind an electric motor will last a long time, very little running gear total costs won't be that far out (compare the cost of a battery every 5yrs vs that of spark plug changes, oil changes, tranny oil changes, filters etc), + the duff battery can be sold back for recycling. It will be more expensive, but not massively so.

I dare say the "chassis" of the car would last longer and modular batteries/motors could be changed making a total life cost similar - and think of the modding opportunities.

 

[television]

Yes, but minus the weight of an internal combustion engine, gearbox and liquid fuel there is about 200kg more mass in a battery car which does without all these things. This will reduce in time as the energy density of batteries increases with technology. Then there is the spinning flywheel hybrid system which can be used to deliver additonal power when needed meaning the batteries don't have to be excessively large.

Bear in mind an electric motor will last a long time, very little running gear total costs won't be that far out (compare the cost of a battery every 5yrs vs that of spark plug changes, oil changes, tranny oil changes, filters etc), + the duff battery can be sold back for recycling. It will be more expensive, but not massively so.

I dare say the "chassis" of the car would last longer and modular batteries/motors could be changed making a total life cost similar - and think of the modding opportunities.

You do have some very valid points there,,thank you

 

[rovingHawk]

The car next to my house covers 10x my annual mileage, so stands to reason he creates more damage than me,

Damage to the road is proportional to the axle loading to the fifth power. In plain english, cars do virtually zero damage to decent roads so what you have there is a non-issue.

He pays more fuel duty, ergo he pays more tax. His engine is smaller, therefore he's attempting to do his bit for heplping the environment so he has the moral high ground on you there.

RH

 

[rovingHawk]

They did this in Ireland way back in the stone ages, no car tax but duty on fuel, then the follwing year a £5 annual register fee on cars..this has now grown into one of the most expensively car taxed areas in the world

You'll find that pretty much the same thing happened here- IIRC it was 1919 fuel duty and 1933 reintroduction of RFL.

If they abolish VED & put the duty up on fuel, just watch the reintroduction of car tax in 2-3 years' time.

RH

 

[television]

In my case I have 2 thirsty cars,,I can only drive one at a time. It would have been nice with the tax on the fuel

 

[st4]

In my case I have 2 thirsty cars,,I can only drive one at a time. It would have been nice with the tax on the fuel

The tax is there on the fuel -don't worry. 70% of the cost of the fuel is tax. How much more tax do you need :lol:

Just scrap VED and have things a wee bit cheaper. I am £180+ VED thats about 1200miles driving. Afterall the government gives out tax credits. The scrapping of VED could be a "motorists tax credit"....

Welcome to st4s Britain.

 

[Miffy]

But he does pay more tax than you. He does 10x more miles and say his car uses 20% less fuel. Ergo he pays 8fold more tax than you in the form of VAT and fuel duty.
...

agreed, but we are talking about the Road Tax, not fuel duty.

 

[Miffy]

In my case I have 2 thirsty cars,,I can only drive one at a time. It would have been nice with the tax on the fuel

A perfect example of how the current Road Tax is unfair

 

[st4]

agreed, but we are talking about the Road Tax, not fuel duty.

A perfect example of how the current Road Tax is unfair

Hence my view just to scrap it. The British motorist pays far too much tax. I am sure if you look hard enough the government could cut costs to meet this budget deficit.

Do you not also pay tax on car insurance. Only 1 car in use at a time yet both insured so this tax also unfair also.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Do you not also pay tax on car insurance. Only 1 car in use at a time yet both insured so this tax also unfair also.

The good news is that some insurers now acknowledge that a person can only drive one car at a time.

Early attempts at "multi-car policies" were derisory, and aggregated to more than the costs of insuring each vehicle separately.

I now have a multicar policy which costs the same as the single car policies for 2 out of 3 cars, but covers all three.

Simples, Tch!

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

this post has caused a good stimulouse and some good comments raised. with reference to alex's insurance issue for several cars, we could only find "morethan" that did this and the cost was not so attractive.

as malcolm said and this is for me also, if you have more than one car, and you are not doing much mileage, then the VED would be better on the fuel for us.

i enjoyed big company cars for all my working life, so fuel, repairs, tax, insurance were a non entity, i suspect that the people who are going to make the new rules will also be in this position, probably why they make the kind of decisions they do.

malcolm, one final point, why can a domestic power supply not be capable of charging one of the new electric cars ? herbiemercman.

 

[rovingHawk]

malcolm, one final point, why can a domestic power supply not be capable of charging one of the new electric cars ?

The generating system can't always support the current (excuse the pun) power use in this country (hence a few cables from France). Add 20 million cars charging & I see difficulties.

RH

 

[Alex M Grieve]

this post has caused a good stimulouse and some good comments raised. with reference to alex's insurance issue for several cars, we could only find "morethan" that did this and the cost was not so attractive.

Hi Herbie,

I am with Admiral Multicar. They don't show up on the price comparison sites, but if you go direct to Admiral, they will provide a realistic multi car quote. They also absorb your cars in to the scheme over the next 12 months as each comes up for reinsurance, at rates prorated and set out in the initial quotation. It is cleverly done and makes renewal less painful.