so are these legal or not?

[Yugguy]

In dipped beams?

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152134287137

 

[LostKiwi]

Not.
H7 can ONLY be legal if they have a filament.

 

[Chrishazle]

The led kit is not suitable for the Germany car, for example: BMW, AUDI, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz etc.

Copied from the listing.

 

[LostKiwi]

Look at the beampattern. Thats an appalingly bad pattern!

 

[Botus]

In dipped beams?

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152134287137

I can't find it now, but last week there was one set where you can adjusts the "focal length" by 4mm to get the light and your headlamps as best as possible, no idea if it works but the idea sounds interesting

it was 60 quid (for a pair) or so on ebay

 

[Craiglxviii]

I can't find it now, but last week there was one set where you can adjusts the "focal length" by 4mm to get the light and your headlamps as best as possible, no idea if it works but the idea sounds interesting

it was 60 quid (for a pair) or so on ebay

And still illegal; the way that light reflects from multiple-point-source light engines in the lamp assembly is completely different from filament lamps regardless of focal length.

To put things into perspective, I'm currently working on side/tail/brake/turn lamps in LED for form factor replacement. At OEM carmaker level it's a 3 year project to get the e-mark and just as importantly, the damn cars rehomologated. A Chinese low end seller is not going to be at the same level come what may.

 

[bob 6600]

Can't see anywhere where it says they are E marked either. The notes/disclaimer would put me off

Notes:

· Bulb compatibility follows the link http://www.sylvania.com/en-us/applications/automotive-lighting-systems/Pages/lrgmain.aspx

· Make sure it is the right type of bulb for your application before purchase

· If you choose H1 model, the diameter of mine is 3/8", pls make sure the stock socket can hold the H1 bulb. Otherwise it will require modification.

· Some vehicles may require resistor to stop flickering.

· The led kit is not suitable for the Germany car, for example: BMW, AUDI, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz etc.

· Will not fit the Car headlights with dust cover

· Will not work on day time running light bulb because voltage is too low to power up the LED.

· For can bus system, your model may require a load resistor to alleviate error message due to the low power draw of these bulbs,

 

[Yugguy]

Ah. I'd fit hid if I could be bothered to dismantle the headlamp unit and have all the ballasts and wiring inside.

 

[LostKiwi]

Ah. I'd fit hid if I could be bothered to dismantle the headlamp unit and have all the ballasts and wiring inside.

And they'd be equally illegal...

 

[flowrider]

I dont get why anyone would risk using illegal headlight bulbs, just stay within the law and keep us all safe.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Ah. I'd fit hid if I could be bothered to dismantle the headlamp unit and have all the ballasts and wiring inside.

And the new bumper and plumbing for headlamp washers, and self levellers....

 

[LostKiwi]

Does the W211 not have self levelling suspension? No need for self levelling lights if so....

 

[AMck]

Does the W211 not have self levelling suspension? No need for self levelling lights if so....

Mercedes believes there is. I have a S211 with airmatic and this still has the headlamp levelling system, so I guess that is how it has been homologated.

 

[L John]

Illegal headlights are great until you have a crash and someone dies.
If the investigators make a case that the illegal headlights were a contributing factor you could be facing manslaughter charges.

Legal headlights are too bright these days in my opinion but they make the legal requirements.
The safe bright lights are the active projector beams that cut the light pointing at oncoming cars.
Going illegal with bright lights and poor beam pattern dazzling oncoming traffic is just asking for trouble.

There are plenty of legal options that are plenty bright enough.
Illegal lights are often worse for driving due to poor beam spread, they're just to look cool.

I'm ashamed to say I had HID in my motorbike for a while for daytime riding to be seen and safe but ended up being out a few times after dark and rode in the dark with them. Never got stopped but changed back to standard as I felt I was being a tw*t.

 

[Yugguy]

Can't post it here as not on the PC but the mot handbook does not say levelling washing systems are required. It clearly states that they MAY be fitted, and if so then they must work.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Can't post it here as not on the PC but the mot handbook does not say levelling washing systems are required. It clearly states that they MAY be fitted, and if so then they must work.

Current lighting regs say:

HiD lamps: levelers required.
LED lamps: levelers and wash system required.
All lamps >2000lm: levelers and wash system required.

New regs coming into force very shortly remove the distinction between lighting source and just focus on the luminous flux density (>2000lm).

Edit- none of this is to do with the MoT Test, but to do with the homologated car, i.e. the car platform that the relevant issuing authority for that particular country that has been approved. It's for this reason that "modifying" cars beyond what has been homologated for them (e.g. factory options) or in a way that performance won't be affected (e.g. go-faster stripes) is illegal.

 

[LostKiwi]

Current lighting regs say:

HiD lamps: levelers required.
LED lamps: levelers and wash system required.
All lamps >2000lm: levelers and wash system required.

New regs coming into force very shortly remove the distinction between lighting source and just focus on the luminous flux density (>2000lm).

Edit- none of this is to do with the MoT Test, but to do with the homologated car, i.e. the car platform that the relevant issuing authority for that particular country that has been approved. It's for this reason that "modifying" cars beyond what has been homologated for them (e.g. factory options) or in a way that performance won't be affected (e.g. go-faster stripes) is illegal.

Are you sure on that Craig? The way I understand it if the LED is under 2000 Lumen then automatic levellers and wash system is not required. Self levelling suspension will count as auto levelling as far as the regs are concerned (in the UK at least)..

UNECE R48 covers it from memory?

 

[Yugguy]

This is the page from the MOT:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Method of Inspection
Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.

Reason for Rejection:
A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.

So to me, provided the beam pattern in still correct, then HID would not fail an MOT. I dont want to blind other drivers.

The regs that you mention, are these for new builds or existing vehicles?

 

[LostKiwi]

This is the page from the MOT:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Method of Inspection
Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.

Reason for Rejection:
A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.

So to me, provided the beam pattern in still correct, then HID would not fail an MOT. I dont want to blind other drivers.

The regs that you mention, are these for new builds or existing vehicles?

Passing an MOT does NOT mean they are legal.
Construction and Use regulations (which are derived from UNECE regulations) are true for all vehicles irrespective of age (some exceptions exist for vintage vehicles).

The MOT test cannot verify if a bulb is e-marked to do so would require dismantling the headlight which is not permitted. VOSA (or whatever they call themselves) are permitted to do so on roadside checks if they have just cause. If VOSA find illegal components they can prevent the vehicle from continuing until the item(s) are rectified and brought into line (and there will be a fine as well).

As Craig has previously said, headlight design is very complex. The design of the headlight unit relies on accurate placement of the filament (or other luminous source). The headlight is tested with a light source meeting the appropriate form factor the light is designed for. i.e. for an H7 headlight an H7 bulb is used. The headlight is then approved (e-marked) for an approved (e-marked) H7 source.
So if you fit an aftermarket non-e-marked bulb there is no guarantee the placement of the light source is correct relative to where it needs to be for the headlight unit to function correctly. Even amongst e-marked bulbs there is some variation (see the various H7 tests for brighter bulbs and they discuss consistency of beam patterns). Those are bulbs that are approved and built to tolerances permitted (and checked by random producion sample testing).
If you fit a non-approved unit the placement of the light source could be right or it could be miles off. It may look ok on a beam setter but the beam setter doesn't measure the colour (in degrees K) of the beam not does it measure the amount of scatter - it can only look at the pattern projected but cannot measure light intensity 'off centre'. And thats the problem.
The beam may be brighter in the correct parts but it may also be brighter in the parts that cause dazzle. The pattern may 'look' ok but could have elements that dazzle that are not readily visible on the beam setter.
The colour of the beam is also important as the more towards blue the light is (>5500K) the more the blue elements of the bean can diffract and scatter. Blue is the colour most readily diffracted and also most likely to create dazzle. Dirt or pitted or cloudy lenses will accentuate this scatter.

In the case of an incandescent bulb the light source is a tight source (1mm across typically) on the axis of the bulb and of a fixed length.
An LED lightsource cannot be on the axis as the LED can only project light through a relatively small arc and must be mounted with another LED on the opposite side. This creates the requirement for a monting substrate that also needs to conduct heat away from the LEDs. Typically they are around 5mm thich at best. So already our light source is 2mm away from where it should be (as in where the reflector/projector is expecting it to be). As the function of the reflector is to focus the beam where its needed the focus is compromised. The 5mm thick substrate creates another issue. The filament radiates light in a 360 degree arc. The LEDs typically radiate light in a 165 degree arc (at best). As we have 2 LEDs we have 330 degree coverage meaning there is a shadow area of 30 degrees. Remeber how the beam isn't focused due to the thickness of the substrate? The lack of focus that results masks the shadow areas so they aren't all that obvious but already we've compromised twice on the beam pattern compared to the filament bulb.

HIDs would appear to be better as they don't have a substrate so the light source can be on centre and radiates 360 degrees. Only issue is the light source is also a point and not the length of the filament, thus compromising the beam pattern again. Given the typical output of an HID is around 2-3 times that of incandescent bulbs any compromise rapidly results in dazzle and glare (equally applies to high power LEDs).

I would not be at all surprised to see a crackdown on lighting sometime soon.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/access...legal-hid-headlight-conversion-kits-explained

 

[Craiglxviii]

The absolute best LED lamp form factor would be (and usually is) a round PCB with a hexagonal-shaped LED pattern, and then various Fresnel-type collimators to give the beam pattern.

This layout is completely opposed to the shape available for a car headlamp... So the format is compromised into a series of "steps".

In the next 5-10 years we will see headlamps shrinking in the depth dimension as all-LED is adopted and people start figuring out that massive depth of housing is nor required (there are very, very few automotive lighting engineers who understand intrinsically how LED lighting works). We will end up with collimated, flexi-PCB, Fresnel-lensed, intelligent lighting solutions that incorporate moving-beam pattern, high/low/dim, side turn etc all onto one PCB.