Sprinter 311 engine rattle

[Cnics]

I have a lwb sprinter 311cdi (52 plate) with 98k on the clock. It has recently developed a rattling/knocking coming from the engine compartment. After an inspection i cannot seem to locate this. It is serviced regularly and was done about 3000 miles ago, no other problems were found then.

The rattle is a knocking noise at tickover which is sometimes worse than others, it is the same whether the engine is cold or hot, the slightest movement of the throttle (a raise to only 1100rpm) cures the problem completely but returns when the van is left to idle.

It appears to be coming from the front of the engine and i suspect it may be a pulley on the alternator/aux belt which could do with changing. The cooling fan also seems to be running faster and will not move freely with the engine off, the fan is however secure (no play from bearings etc).

I am not too mechanically minded so would appreciate any advise you can give. I do roughly 40,000 miles a year so the vans reliability is top priority.


On a separate note (its unlikely the 2 are related) sometimes if i push the engine hard (a quick set off for example) and the engine reaches its maximum speed, the fuel filter light and EDC light come on, i seem to lose power for a split second but then everything is returned to normal, the lights however stay on until i've switched the engine off and on again. It has done this since its last service (in which the fuel filter was changed) and i was wondering if something had gone wrong there.


Thanks in advance


Rob

 

[dava]

Two things, some times on tick over the rattle is in the gearbox, dip the clutch and if it goes off, thats were it is, nothing to worrie about if it is.

Secondly, the crankshaft pully has a vibration damper on, these go from time to time and vibrate rattle etc and can snap off, loosing drive belts etc and causing loss of power steering.

 

[Cnics]

Depressing clutch makes no difference at all.

As for the crankshaft pulley, sounds reasonable. What sort of a job is it to replace and have you any idea of cost of parts? Also as the fan is connected to all this, whilst i dont think it is this causing the problem but it does seem a bit stiff as if maybe it is worn, (causing it to run at engine speed all the time).

Thanks for your help so far, any more appreciated.

Rob

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Open the oil filler cap. See if the noise is external or internal.

 

[dava]

Bit of a pig to change, it's tighten to silly torques and awkward to get off even then, you neeed to take the fan and pulley off to get it past. Give is some more info and I'll try and help.
Ray

 

[Cnics]

After reading another thread posted yesterday evening, it may be the alternator pulley (if that is the trouble on the other guys C220).

As much info as i can give :

Only makes the noise on tickover, anything slightly above and its cured.
No difference when hot or cold,
Belt is flapping slightly at tickover, its probably in need of changing regardless.
Bit of a squeel on full lock which hasn't happened before (slipping).
"knocking" effect is in the region of 8times a second. (as i've said theres no varying with engine speed as when the revs pick up its gone).
Clutch depression makes no difference.
noise seems to get louder momentarily as engine is switched off.

Additional things that may or may not be related :

Fan goes round at engine speed, its very stiff when engine is off at any temperature.
Last service had a few fuel filter hiccups (maybe a faulty filter as the lamp comes on if you push the engine to the limiter)


Due to the fan issue, it may be that that has got to be replaced anyway so shall have to come off.

 

[dava]

Fan belt tensioner.

 

[Sprint'n'Go]

This has just struck home. I had this with my sprinter and it was fixed under warranty. I was told it was the alternator pulley which has some kind of clutch in it to prevent squeal/snatching when starting and stopping the engine? I wasn't shown any of the parts so not exactly sure what the fault was or what it involves to fix it.

 

[dava]

This has just struck home. I had this with my sprinter and it was fixed under warranty. I was told it was the alternator pulley which has some kind of clutch in it to prevent squeal/snatching when starting and stopping the engine? I wasn't shown any of the parts so not exactly sure what the fault was or what it involves to fix it.

To be fair it could also be the alty. Couple of faults here, the clutch on the end of the alty, seizes, can be replaced but a pig to get off as they seize on the the pully and you end up fitting a new alty. Secondly and I've had it a few times, the alty sarts to 'motor' this means there is some internal short and the alty tries to run in reverse against engine rotation pulling on the drive belt, causing the tensioner to jump around like billy oh. Check the alty after a run, if it's hot, this could be the cause, then take the drive belt off and try the alty clutch/pully for tightness, sadly if it is any of these it's likely to cattled the tensioner as well. Replace the belt what ever you do, chances are it'll have had a hard time.

There you go lesson for today!

 

[battwell]

the one way clutch on alternator is a pig! it usually squeels a bit when first started.sounds clicky running.its only £32 so get it changed before it snaps itself off when driving, leaving you stranded. the alternator only takes 10 mins to remove. ive also had the belt idler pullies do the same thing with no warning. these are only £14 each and worth changing at 100000. i own 4 sprinters which do 5000 miles a week between them. also check the rattle isnt actually from under the van in which case it will most likely be the dual mass flywheel getting tired.

 

[Cnics]

Rattle is definately from the front.

I'll change this one way clutch thing, and the idler pulleys. Alternator isn't hot after a run, so may be lucky there. As you say worth doing at 100k anyway, we're on 98k so that'll do.

Any ideas with the fan? something seized up there?

And i'm pleased the noise isn't coming from underneath, the dual mass flywheel sounds more difficult and expensive than a couple of pulleys

Rob

 

[battwell]

viscous fan. sprinter. fan noise.

the fan growls when engine is revved? van not making its top speeds as fast too?
another common sprinter fault and a pain to get at. (dont know if theres an easy way) radiator has to be lifted and tilted forward, shroud removed etc to get at its retaining bolt, which is usually flipping tight!
the usual thing is the viscous fan coupling. (the aluminium finned housing behind the fan itself)

i dont know what goes wrong with these things or exactly how they work?
i know a good one lets the fan rotate slowly when cold independent of engine speed etc and when temperature requires it speeds up fan, i presume it works on wax capsule theory? can anyone enlighten me?

i do know they make the van louder when at speed and annoy you with a constant whirring up and down when changing gear,accelerating, decelerating.
They also seem to absorb about 20hp off the engine power. (this forced me to change it on my 310 when it was struggling to make 85mph)

my 316 is suffering from this at the moment and it drives me nuts, just waiting for the right weather, right mood,have to do that one day,do i want dirty hands and scratched arms feeling to subside.

 

[Cnics]

I have the advantage of being able to do it undercover.

I'm not struggling to get to speed, although i pull a trailer alot so i'm never much over 60 if thats on the back. Sans trailer, van does reach its maximum speed though, whether it is taking longer i dont know.

Looks like over the next couple of weeks i have a bit of work to do.

Any idea on parts cost for this fan stuff.

 

[battwell]

never bought any from mercs. picked up 2 new ones on ebay a while ago £30 each.
have to find one for my 316 soon...ish

 

[dava]

Take the drive belt off and run it see if the noise goes off, that will eliminate all thats driven by it, alty viscuss fan etc. To be honest I dont think it will be the viscuss, they are not a common fault, cant say I even changed one, but it could be a first, running with the belt off will tell you if it's that. Just run it at stand still though and not for to long as it will overheat and you'll have no power steering.

 

[battwell]

the viscous fan suggestion is for the other fault of fan turning at engine speed.
ticking probably the fan sprag bearing or one of the idler bearings
(all items ive had to replace with the same faults anyway)

 

[C220GJS]

Batwell,
Working theory of the viscous fan coupling;
The fan drive clutch is a fluid coupling containing silicone oil. Fan speed is regulated by the torque carrying capacity of silicone oil. Fan speed increases with a rise in temperature and decreases as temperature goes down. The more silicone oil in the coupling, the greater the fan speed. The less silicone oil, the slower the fan speed. A heat-sensitive, bi-metal spring connected to an opening plate regulates the amount of silicone oil entering the coupling.
I had a better article than this by Braingears but it seems to have been deleted.

 

[twodogron]

You say "Rattle or Knock", there's a great deal of difference between the two, both in sound and feel, the expensive one is nearly always the "Knock".
You've received a lot of good posts but the main thing is to go thru a system of diagnosis by elimination. I go along with checking Dampers/Couplings and so forth but I haven't read anything about Diesel knocks which can be caused under similar circumstances to that which you describe. This symtom can be simply and easily diagnosed by breaking each Injector in turn with the engine ticking over, it's quick and simple and would eliminate one possibility.
One comfort to you is that serious Knocks Don't go away as the revs increase as you describe, so hopefully if it is a knock it's not a serious one.
Just make sure you eliminate all the simple things first before you start dismantling heavy expensive components.
Cheers...
Ron..

 

[dava]

You say "Rattle or Knock", there's a great deal of difference between the two, both in sound and feel, the expensive one is nearly always the "Knock".
You've received a lot of good posts but the main thing is to go thru a system of diagnosis by elimination. I go along with checking Dampers/Couplings and so forth but I haven't read anything about Diesel knocks which can be caused under similar circumstances to that which you describe. This symtom can be simply and easily diagnosed by breaking each Injector in turn with the engine ticking over, it's quick and simple and would eliminate one possibility.
One comfort to you is that serious Knocks Don't go away as the revs increase as you describe, so hopefully if it is a knock it's not a serious one.
Just make sure you eliminate all the simple things first before you start dismantling heavy expensive components.
Cheers...
Ron..

Be carefull doing this it's a CDi, high pressure fuel.

 

[battwell]

c220gjs. thanks

interesting theory for viscous coupling... who the heck thinks of these things and why dont they design them so they wont go wrong?
anyone know if they can be fixed or fettled? i know wd40 doesnt work. :-(
(if it squeeks or squeels, siezes or sticks i spray it)