suspension Rebuild

[mercmonkey]

Its time to rebuild my suspension

Ive just ordered a Koni setup of lowered springs (think the lower look will set off the AMG style 17s Ive got waiting to fit) and dampers, but on inspection this evening it looks like I may as well do a full overhaul

Im thinking of using poly bushes from the Powerflex universal range to upgrade the stock bushes and antirollbar mounts

anyone else done this and have any suggestions?

 

[clive williams]

Its time to rebuild my suspension

Ive just ordered a Koni setup of lowered springs (think the lower look will set off the AMG style 17s Ive got waiting to fit) and dampers, but on inspection this evening it looks like I may as well do a full overhaul

Im thinking of using poly bushes from the Powerflex universal range to upgrade the stock bushes and antirollbar mounts

anyone else done this and have any suggestions?

Mercmonkey,

I've used polybushes in my Range Rover and a departed Audi 80 and I can thoroughly recommend them. But, Powerflex don't make specific bushes for Mercs, presumably because there is no great requirement as there are few competition mercs, except for the high end where all the 'bushes' are rose joints. I've toyed with the idea of rebushing (the 500E) with universal powerflex but you would have to measure every separate bush, either by buying a new set from MB or stripping the suspension down and working from that (a lengthy process with a significant down time). There is a strong probability that their limited range does not extend far enough to do all the bushes and I was loathe to carry out a part poly and part rubber rebuild. You could of course, then check whether other applications will fit and also other manufacturers such as Deflex, but the the question of time and the variable of different shore hardnesses comes into the equation

Alternatives could be rose joints - requires extra engineering - or SFN nylon bushes, which you can have made at reasonable cost to suit. Both solutions will produce a good handling car but with unacceptable harshness unless of course you're a diehard racer.

I think the best solution is to fit a new set of rubber bushes, which will give a reasonable result especially against high mileage/knackered bushes.

If there was enough interest as there was for the coil sprung Land Rovers, then one of the poly bush suppliers will make them - are there any other takers as I for one will be very interested in W124 bushes?

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[mercmonkey]

theres a thought...

The universal range seems to cover most of the bushes as you said but there are one or 2 it doesnt although its possible some could be modified to fit.

Im happy to get a full set of replacement bushes from mercedes for a w201, and then getting a limited run of polys run off for the ones that are not available, as long as someone will buy them off me when Im done

 

[clive williams]

theres a thought...

The universal range seems to cover most of the bushes as you said but there are one or 2 it doesnt although its possible some could be modified to fit.

Im happy to get a full set of replacement bushes from mercedes for a w201, and then getting a limited run of polys run off for the ones that are not available, as long as someone will buy them off me when Im done

Mercmonkey,

I can't see how you can modify the poly bushes to fit? They are moulded to the shape and reducing them can't be achieved to the standards required. If you get the universal bushes from Powerflex then they will have to do the one-offs to maintain the same shore hardness. My discussions with Powerflex, Deflex and others doesn't inspire me that they really know what they're selling!

If you're doing one-offs then will they fit other models?

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[clive williams]

theres a thought...

The universal range seems to cover most of the bushes as you said but there are one or 2 it doesnt although its possible some could be modified to fit.

Im happy to get a full set of replacement bushes from mercedes for a w201, and then getting a limited run of polys run off for the ones that are not available, as long as someone will buy them off me when Im done

Mercmonkey,

One last thought have you checked out www.energysuspension.com They are probably the largest supplier of poly bushings. Unfortunately, they don't list MBs (but all other cars - why?) but their universal/hotrod range might provide something.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[mercmonkey]

cheers for that will have a browse later.

My dad has some contacts in the boatbuilding industry and thinks its possible to get some "specials" made up

from visual inspection and some "heath robinson" measuring most of the bushes can be replaced with the universal powerflex ones. Although after reading some other articles online Im starting to think I may be better off just using MB bushes, as the uprated Koni suspension, and 17s will most likely stiffen it up enough.

Ill keep you all posted

 

[clive williams]

cheers for that will have a browse later.

My dad has some contacts in the boatbuilding industry and thinks its possible to get some "specials" made up

from visual inspection and some "heath robinson" measuring most of the bushes can be replaced with the universal powerflex ones. Although after reading some other articles online Im starting to think I may be better off just using MB bushes, as the uprated Koni suspension, and 17s will most likely stiffen it up enough.

Ill keep you all posted

Mercmonkey,

Check out www.superflex.co.uk. They also have universal bar

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[mercmonkey]

cheers clive, old man is a bit handy in a machine shop, think we may have a plan here

Ive sent him the link all i need to do now is get the dimensions of the "non std bushes and then we can get something started.

Still think the car is gonna be a bit of a boneshaker with the polys, but we shall see



Maybe TV can supply the dimensions of the bushes without the need for me to go and buy a full set

 

[Ian Brown]

Why do you need to change all the bushes on your car and why do you want to fit poly bushes, and fluck about getting them to fit. What mileage is on your car, mine has done 140,000mls and the only bushes I have changed on mine is the anti roll bar bushes. If you go down the road of fitting all the bushes you would be quicker dropping the rear sub frame as the arms and bushes would be more accessible. It would be a time consuming job so why not just replace the bushes that need replaced and fit original one, think how long the originals have been in the car and ask yourself will I do the same amount of miles again as the car has already done and will the car last long enough to cover all those miles again. Will poly bushes last the same as the origionals.

 

[mercmonkey]

seemed like a good idea at the time, most of the bushes look like they need doing.
its done 147K, the suspension feels soggy and tired and as my old man always said... If you do a job, do it properly.
Also If Im going to have the suspension in bits might as well do it once.
I will agree tho that polybushes are starting to loose there appeal

 

[clive williams]

Why do you need to change all the bushes on your car and why do you want to fit poly bushes, and fluck about getting them to fit. What mileage is on your car, mine has done 140,000mls and the only bushes I have changed on mine is the anti roll bar bushes. If you go down the road of fitting all the bushes you would be quicker dropping the rear sub frame as the arms and bushes would be more accessible. It would be a time consuming job so why not just replace the bushes that need replaced and fit original one, think how long the originals have been in the car and ask yourself will I do the same amount of miles again as the car has already done and will the car last long enough to cover all those miles again. Will poly bushes last the same as the origionals.

Ian,

In response to the points you raise:

1) Poly bushes are easier to fit than rubber ones. I know, I've done several sets of rubber and poly bushes and would fit poly bushes for that reason alone. You can use copious amounts of grease/oil as they are unaffected by it - unlike rubber.
2) Like all suspension components, bushes fatigue and their performance gradually deteriorates over time. Rubber ones are seriously affected by oils and fluids that generally flow around underneath the older/high mileage vehicles. We only seem to replace them when they fail. Replace all the bushes in your car and you will be amazed how much the handling had deteriorated (or improves - depends on whether you're a half empty or half full guy). A high performance set of bushes adds a precision to the driving experience.
3) As bushes deteriorate, changing just one or an axle pair can lead to differential performance between the new and the old creating inconsistant handling. It is best to change all the bushes as one.
4) The cost of poly bushes is now comparable with rubber bushes especially, from OEMs and therefore cost is not an issue.
5) Poly bushes are claimed to last around 5 times longer than rubber (I've never checked as I've never kept a vehicle that long), but most importantly they are unaffected by vehicle fluid and their performance deteriorates much less over their service life, maintaining consistant handling.

My Range Rover has poly bushes fitted and I'm fitting a full set to a Discovery in a couple of weeks. Land Rover bushes are recognised to be well past their best at 50K mls because of the strain they are working under and the fitting of poly bushes is de rigeur for all solid axle Land Rovers. I haven't heard of the need for any further replacements. In fact, it has got to the stage that Land Rover sales of (rubber) bushes has plummetted and they are difficult to get hold of, even from stealers.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[Ian Brown]

Ian,

In response to the points you raise:

1) Poly bushes are easier to fit than rubber ones. I know, I've done several sets of rubber and poly bushes and would fit poly bushes for that reason alone. You can use copious amounts of grease/oil as they are unaffected by it - unlike rubber.
2) Like all suspension components, bushes fatigue and their performance gradually deteriorates over time. Rubber ones are seriously affected by oils and fluids that generally flow around underneath the older/high mileage vehicles. We only seem to replace them when they fail. Replace all the bushes in your car and you will be amazed how much the handling had deteriorated (or improves - depends on whether you're a half empty or half full guy). A high performance set of bushes adds a precision to the driving experience.
3) As bushes deteriorate, changing just one or an axle pair can lead to differential performance between the new and the old creating inconsistant handling. It is best to change all the bushes as one.
4) The cost of poly bushes is now comparable with rubber bushes especially, from OEMs and therefore cost is not an issue.
5) Poly bushes are claimed to last around 5 times longer than rubber (I've never checked as I've never kept a vehicle that long), but most importantly they are unaffected by vehicle fluid and their performance deteriorates much less over their service life, maintaining consistant handling.

My Range Rover has poly bushes fitted and I'm fitting a full set to a Discovery in a couple of weeks. Land Rover bushes are recognised to be well past their best at 50K mls because of the strain they are working under and the fitting of poly bushes is de rigeur for all solid axle Land Rovers. I haven't heard of the need for any further replacements. In fact, it has got to the stage that Land Rover sales of (rubber) bushes has plummetted and they are difficult to get hold of, even from stealers.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

Polybushes on a landrover are very easy to fit compared to the oem ones. I have a friend with a land rover 90 with 4 inch lift and all the extras for off roading, only some of his bushes are polybushes he has heard that the dirt from off roading gets between the metal and the nylon and wears them out quicker than the originals. As I said before if the original bushes lasted for 147,000 miles in his merc why not fit oem ones again, has it been proven that poly bushes will last that length of time and mileage. PS have you got polbushes on your merc? If not why not if they are that good?.

 

[mercmonkey]

Clive stated earlier he would like them, but has been unable to source them easily, Im prepared to do a little legwork to get what I want. Also having access to a machine shop and a skilled (and bored) machinist makes things a little easier.
I was always taught that with, brakes, suspension, tyres etc what ever you do to one side you do to the other.

The 190 is not my daily driver and so I can take my time to do what I want with it. I dont mind spending a bit of cash, and Im well aware that ill never get my money back on the car. I treat it as a learning tool, I dismantle the suspension and maybe change/modify a few parts, see how it changes the car.
If it dont work so be it, Im a little lighter on the pocket, and a little wiser.

If people didnt experiment/explore then we'd still be living in caves



I was thinking of replacing the carpets with lamininate flooring, any comments?

 

[clive williams]

Clive stated earlier he would like them, but has been unable to source them easily, Im prepared to do a little legwork to get what I want. Also having access to a machine shop and a skilled (and bored) machinist makes things a little easier.
I was always taught that with, brakes, suspension, tyres etc what ever you do to one side you do to the other.

The 190 is not my daily driver and so I can take my time to do what I want with it. I dont mind spending a bit of cash, and Im well aware that ill never get my money back on the car. I treat it as a learning tool, I dismantle the suspension and maybe change/modify a few parts, see how it changes the car.
If it dont work so be it, Im a little lighter on the pocket, and a little wiser.

If people didnt experiment/explore then we'd still be living in caves





I was thinking of replacing the carpets with lamininate flooring, any comments?

Thanks Mercmonkey.

Ian,

The main reason I have not fitted the poly bushes to the 500E in particular is that this is my main mode of transport and I use it in connection with my business. I cannot afford to have it off the road for a protracted period. I try to do all servicing and repair over a weekend and have been known to crawl under the vehicle in a snow storm just to get it done.
To fit poly bushes I would have to source a full one sided set of new bushes from MB at galactic prices in order to source the universal poly bushes to fit. I would also run the risk of not finding the full set and I'm not prepared to run a mix especially on one axle. Alternatively, I could take the vehicle off the road strip the suspension down, measure everything and again try to source the poly bushes. When I first contemplated this 5 years ago the range was not as extensive as at present and I had hoped that someone would have developed a set by now.

I do put my money where my mouth is and I have fitted poly bushes to my Range Rover and our recently departed Audi. The Audi also was in full use but only required 4 bushes to be replaced for a full front and rear replacement. The 500E requires many more. The E320CDI is a recent acquisition but is the family barge used for everything and therefore less appropriate at this stage for improvement. Besides the front bush on the front wishbone is a hydraulic unit, which I'm loathe to replace.

The issue of the grinding paste in the bush of Land Rovers EITHER applies to extreme off road conditions where the suspension is submerged in gloop, allowed to dry and left or power washed in, OR I suspect that in the case of replacent bushes insufficient care is applied to the cleaning of the eyes since most LR bushes have to be burnt out.

How can you say that your bushes have lasted 147k mls? They are still there and may last another 500k mls before they fail, but I suspect they are not performing anywhere near the original level. As poly bushes are no more costly than rubber why not have the better product?

Poly bushes have been around for about 30 years with Energy Suspension in the States being the main supplier. The durability is well documented by them. The reason for their original supply was to cope the horrendous strain that desert racing placed on standard rubber bushes and give race long durability.

Mercmonkey,

The B&Q laminate will work as it always curls and will therefore fit - bit slippy though!

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210