Taxes are good!

[jon_harley]

Is it only me who thinks taxing motorists heavily is a good idea?

Under capitalism, the only way of rationing scarce resources is by price. And space on our roads is pretty scarce nowadays. And motoring is incredibly cheap compared to what it used to be (apart from fuel). When I started driving, in the mid 80s, a basic hatchback cost £5-6K and they would start to go rusty after a few years. 20 years later, a basic hatchback still costs about the same and they last a lot longer! In the meantime the average salary has climbed steadily and unemployment is way down. Consequently there are far, far more cars on the roads now. Is this really a good thing? I don't think so.

I guess I'm not alone, since all the major political parties believe in taxing road users, but some people on here talk like they think "what Britain really needs is even more cars clogging up our roads"!

Ever since printing was invented, people have been writing whinges along the lines of "this new tax is so unfair!". Hell, people have been saying it since the Romans were in charge here. There's nothing new under the sun. Pay up, be happy that it mostly goes to pay for useful things, and get on with something more fun!

 

[verytalldave]

Is it only me who thinks taxing motorists heavily is a good idea?

YES.




Pardon the blindingly obvious, but what answer DID you expect on a motoring forum ? ? ? ? ?


BTW..............please quantify "heavily".................



.

 

[mattsurf]

I agree with Jon Harley, I think that it is correct to tax road users. People who choose to drive a large engined Mercedes (remember this is only for cars registered after 1 march 2001) should pay higher tax.

As a nation, we vote to have, state education, NHS, armed forces etc, we constantly put pressure on governments to improve standards, we want a better environment for our children... however, we don't want to pay tax, we don't want to pay to use our cars, we don't want to pay higher airfares.

As for voting for a different government, they will face the same pressures and will probably make similar decisions (I am not a labour supporter) - there really is not that much leaway for balancing tax and spending

I believe that there are some much more unfair taxes than VED. The proposed road pricing at peak periods would be far more unfair as there would be no alternative for many people. However, if you buy a large engined car generally you are in a position to pay the tax, it is an informed choice. Also, you know when you buy a new luxury car you will pay massively in depreciation, servicing and at the fuel pumps, so the cost of additional VED should also be considered now.

I am by no means wealthy, however, I am considering buying an S500 and I am willing to pay the additional VED for the privilage

 

[verytalldave]

To reiterate, please quantify "heavily".

I too, dont object to paying my way. I have NEVER avoided any payment of any tax ever, but what I DO object to is unfair and unjust taxation.
The additional costs levied on the motorist in the last budget where laid at the door of "green" issues and "saving the planet".
This as EVERYBODY knows is a total smokescreen and is only about the increase of taxation income. If the reason was "go green" then other measures could be introduced which geniunely seek to address the issue. Not by swelling the coffers.
I cant believe how niave some people can be.
Its only EVER about revenue raising.

 

[kelbenz]

Pay up, be happy that it mostly goes to pay for useful things, and get on with something more fun!

Like a £10k kitchen on tax free expenses for example?

Perhaps when ministers swap their limos for polo blue motions and the like we might complain less.
In my opinion the motorist is the easiest target. People want their own transport and will pay up (begrudgingly) almost any amount the government requests.
Dont forget that over 80% of the cost of your fuel is already tax. You can expect your fuel costs to rise too as the government drives gas guzzlers off the roads, after all if less fuel is being used the price will need to rise to keep the coffers topped up. Its a cleft stick situation for the government but they have to be seen to be doing something.

 

[euclidb2]

To reiterate, please quantify "heavily".

I too, dont object to paying my way. I have NEVER avoided any payment of any tax ever, but what I DO object to is unfair and unjust taxation.
The additional costs levied on the motorist in the last budget where laid at the door of "green" issues and "saving the planet".
This as EVERYBODY knows is a total smokescreen and is only about the increase of taxation income. If the reason was "go green" then other measures could be introduced which geniunely seek to address the issue. Not by swelling the coffers.
I cant believe how niave some people can be.
Its only EVER about revenue raising.

Well said verytalldave

 

[Parrot of Doom]

There may be far more cars on the road today, but there aren't far more roads in the country today so your argument doesn't hold water with me. The government takes from the motorist under the guise of the environment, and spends that money paying the wage bills of the public sector.

As for setting the price, that is the responsibility of the market. Scarcity of oil = higher prices.

VED or RFL or whatever its called these days is just another tax. No different to NI payments. It should be scrapped completely.

 

[rf065]

I agree with Jon Harley,

Are you two the friends of the earth guys who appear on BBC news after every budget? At least tell me you have beards?


Russ

 

[100%Bitch]

Is it only me who thinks taxing motorists heavily is a good idea?

What a stupid question to ask in this day and age of so many unfair levels of taxation.

All I have to say on the matter is that instead of overpricing motoring to "save our planet" and get cars off the road, they would be much wiser to launch an attack on the Chinese, Indians and the US to stop them pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere per hour and to stop S. Americans from cutting the rainforests down. A few cars off the road is realy going to make a huge difference isn't it?

Or am I going mad?

 

[Richard Moakes]

Is it only me who thinks taxing motorists heavily is a good idea?

Asking a question like that on a car forum? Wouldn't it be easier to go down to the local pub and insult someone? Either way you will be as popular as a Range Rover at a Green Party meeting

The answer is simple, scrap all road tax, tolls, all that expensive technology is unnecessary, unless of course the govt wants to track our every move, surely not ....and then add a suitable amount to petrol tax.

We would then have a fair pay as you drive taxation system, and the money raised should be used to pay for seriously improved public transport in both urban and rural areas.

 

[lakeside]

I agree with Jon Harley and Mattsurf.
And I'm far from naive.
And no, I don't have a beard

 

[joem]

Yes, you are so alone.

Taxing motorists is fine if there is an alternative. In London, there are alternatives.

I live in Mountsorrel, my children go to school in Loughborough and my wife works in Loughborough.

My office is in Ashby Magna (5 miles South of Leicester) and I visit my customers regularly anywhere from Gloucester, London, Melton Mowbray, Nottingham or Manchester.

Public Transport is so not an option. There isn't any.

Government are stupid. They have no idea what real people do in their real jobs.

Were I to get public transport to work, it would take me 48 hours to travel 23 miles. So, two days late, I arrive at work - then I have to be in Oxford in 2 hours - only on public transport it will take 2 days. Blah blah blah...

I think I need my car.

Only now I've found out that my 2001 C200k estate is now, from 2009 going to cost £415 per year in road tax.

Perlease...

I did not vote for them.. really, it is not my fault...

 

[verytalldave]

I agree with Jon Harley and Mattsurf.
And I'm far from naive...........

Sorry, but you seem to be.................

How can you agree with somebody when they haven't made an accurate exact statement?
I asked for the original poster to quantify exactly what he meant by using the word heavily. As of this moment in time there has been no response to my request.
For all you know Jon Harley my have meant he thinks £5000 a year to be a fair amount for road tax.
How would you feel about that?......OK or a tad expensive?
I would wait to let him say exactly what he means before agreeing if I was you.


I go along with taxation principle suggested by Richard Moakes. Its a system that's fair and cannot be dodged by anyone.
Use a small car lightly and you pay little.
Use a big car heavily and you pay alot.

Logical, simple and effective.

 

[gring]

I think small engined cars should be banned, everyone should be made to drive 5 litre engined cars that pump out loads of CO2. Then we might get some better weather. CO2 is good.

 

[lakeside]

Sorry, but you seem to be.................

I notice you've edited your original statement and toned it down a bit. Good.

How can you agree with somebody when they haven't made an accurate exact statement?
I asked for the original poster to quantify exactly what he meant by using the word heavily. As of this moment in time there has been no response to my request.
For all you know Jon Harley my have meant he thinks £5000 a year to be a fair amount for road tax.
How would you feel about that?......OK or a tad expensive?
I would wait to let him say exactly what he means before agreeing if I was you.

Well you're not me are you? So I'll make my own mind up thanks :wink:
I agree that motoring is cheaper now than it used to be. I agree that there are too many cars on the road at any given time. I agree with the general principle that since motorists won't give up free and unfettered use of their cars voluntarily, then some form of restricting legislation will be neccessary, otherwise the whole road system will grind to a halt, given the year on year increase in traffic.
I also think that no one has yet come up with a truly equitable system of taxation for cars. I disagree that putting it all on fuel tax is the right thing to do.
I agree that taxes have been moaned about since they were first invented.
Hope that's a bit clearer for you.

 

[hawk20]

I find it extraordinarily odd to see a loony left London Mayor and a Labour govt both so bereft of morals or imagination that the only way they can think of for dealing with the problem is to tax lower income (or 'working class' ) people off the roads so that better off people (middle and upper class) can go on using their cars just as before. Not my idea of Socialism.

To cut CO2 I would expect socialists to favour regulation of car makers, imposition of limiters, and the banning of cars above certain emission levels or above certain engine sizes. Then there is rationing and permits and all the usual socialist controls and bureaucracy that could be imposed if even more was needed.

 

[rf065]

I agree with Jon Harley and Mattsurf.
And I'm far from naive.
And no, I don't have a beard

Perhaps you can tell us why you agree and what the benefits are?

30 years ago I had to catch the 6am bus to get to the next town where I caught another which got me to work for 9am. It took 3 hours to get home as well. There was a small B road that got me there in 15 minutes each way by car. So 30 years later and god knows how many billions of pounds have been collected from the motorist in that time, has anything changed. Well the buses still follow the same routes but take longer because of the mismanagement of traffic that councils are so good at these days. The B road is still a lot quicker but even then, a narrow bridge in need of repair has had traffic lights put up to keep traffic to single file rather than build a new bridge and widen the road.

If we paid higher tax and actually saw something improving on the roads, fair enough, but the whole roads system gets worse by the minute and tax keeps rising. When they removed the tolls from the Forth Road Bridge, they also removed the need for thousands of cars a day to stop at the toll and accelerate away again, thus saving tons of co2. Our friendly, bearded, "friends of the earth" types appeared on TV the same day saying it was a mistake and could only lead to more pollution. Thats how misguided they are.

Russ

 

[euclidb2]

I notice you've edited your original statement and toned it down a bit. Good.

Well you're not me are you? So I'll make my own mind up thanks :wink:
I agree that motoring is cheaper now than it used to be. I agree that there are too many cars on the road at any given time. I agree with the general principle that since motorists won't give up free and unfettered use of their cars voluntarily, then some form of restricting legislation will be neccessary, otherwise the whole road system will grind to a halt, given the year on year increase in traffic.
I also think that no one has yet come up with a truly equitable system of taxation for cars. I disagree that putting it all on fuel tax is the right thing to do.
I agree that taxes have been moaned about since they were first invented.
Hope that's a bit clearer for you.

I think the teddy bear's come over the side of the cot

 

[JEZ.S320L]

I think small engined cars should be banned, everyone should be made to drive 5 litre engined cars that pump out loads of CO2. Then we might get some better weather. CO2 is good.

You have MY vote - its already in the 20's here..!!

C'mon everyone - I'm doing MY bit.

 

[JEZ.S320L]

I notice you've edited your original statement and toned it down a bit. Good.

Well you're not me are you? So I'll make my own mind up thanks :wink:
I agree that motoring is cheaper now than it used to be. I agree that there are too many cars on the road at any given time. I agree with the general principle that since motorists won't give up free and unfettered use of their cars voluntarily, then some form of restricting legislation will be neccessary, otherwise the whole road system will grind to a halt, given the year on year increase in traffic.
I also think that no one has yet come up with a truly equitable system of taxation for cars. I disagree that putting it all on fuel tax is the right thing to do.
I agree that taxes have been moaned about since they were first invented.
Hope that's a bit clearer for you.

So what do you propose as viable alternatives?