tell me I'm wrong.... My Turn - W221 ABS / ESP rubbish on speedo - its really comms / odd software bugs

[Botus]

comes up on quite a few forums - I'm always suggesting its ABS sensors needing replacement - coz that's a normal thing...

But its been 4 years since I swapped all 4 for genuine merc ones so I forget - but I seem to think it should be a RED warning - as the issue is dangerous
However today's message also got the ABS light on not just a cluster nag which was Amber ?


These are getting older and german made ABS modules were built to make you scrap the car or motorbike - the number of these that go pop on BMW bikes is stupid - had it on two of mine for a start (and I'm not on about the early troublesome iteration)... there are loads of Youtube videos on how to DIY repair ABS module faults, and everyone and their dog do repairs for those that don't have the tools to try at home... Way before I had any idea and or tools to diagnose - my sister threw away a perfectly good four year old car 15 years ago - that was due to the earlier designed in fault where the wires fall off the circuit board - indeed my omega did the same - but I repaired that, as by then I knew the game


this got me excited about the topic, so been following ABS faults theme for years... After they got caught on the link wires coming un-soldered (as they did the same trick on all the diesels for the turbo actuator too), they moved to a more "random fault" that was harder to say they'd built it in deliberately... it didn't work as you find VAG now do a dealer parts dept repair kit, after a class action suit made them sort it and fords are much the same boat...


The fault introduced later, relates to the little baby "wiper motor" ESP pump, which has its carbon brushes forced into guides that are too tight, so depending upon a bit of luck and how often the ABS has cut in, brush debris gums up the brushes and the motor starts to go intermittent....


So, I know its not really serious or expensive and if I need to pop the unit off and sort, I don't care as its easy to reach - but I'm not desperate to get my hands dirty so I'll run with today's thought that what many are now getting is a comms bug - not a genuine fault


And there I was today no bugs worth worrying about for quite some time and thinking about the seat thread that comes alive regularly on a 221 forum - I decided much of it is probably the point that valves through lack of use forget what they are meant to do... so I decided to play with all the features today and the back rest sides would not play ball. Everything else worked, had a massage - then notice the shoulder adjustment seemed lazy to cut back when reset to zero - as I said the sides just went No and refused to let you try and select.


after switching off the car for 45 mins, I was driving in a straight line at 40 mph I tested the drivers seat pneumatic adjustment again - everything worked this time including the backrest sides ? - so its not air pressure and its not a stuck valve as NOTHING made them unstuck or fixed a leak I never had - so there I was chuckling about it being "random mercedes wiring / software / engineering integrity" as I have often suggested it is on the seat back rest module - and thinking of writing this up on the forum - when I tried it once more - and at the exact point the side cushions on drivers seat backrest moved (as I asked) the ABS / ESP error popped on the cluster, the car then wouldn't pull away properly stuck in 3rd or 4th gear. I stopped locked the car restarted the car, no change... realised the steering wheel buttons allowed me to pick 1st when the car would only do 3rd or 4th on its own


Got to a mates house went to reverse on to his drive, no gears forward or back !!! this is NOT an ABS fault - more like a Comms bug affecting multiple systems !!! Locked the car for an hour and thought 50 50 it will wake up happy - it wasn't - but now its pulling away normally and driving fine but with no ABS. In fact it was driving better - as the gears were holding higher revs and it drove more nicely at about 2.2k rpm change points not the normal 1.2k rpm it does to drink my fuel - No odd steering I know others have reported...


Get home and throw my just updated to 23.2 iteration Snap On scanner on the car, and get 17 faults across engine, gearbox, ABS, canbus, SAM and low volts it had at some point. I forget the words or where I came across it but found something like "held in fault mode" or something - so the car threw teddies over something (is this bad software - my iPod threw the towel in the other day and even disconnecting it wouldn't sort it - never had that before - needed to force a reboot on what seemed to be a totally dead iPod, now its happy again ? (actually I was using that today when the car went silly)).


Noted all the issues and said stuff it - there is NOTHING wrong and they car is there !!! - Key On Off and the car now agrees with me !!!
but...oddly with it idling it feels like I can feel a misfire - so I go in lots of parameters on the drive train and it thinks its happy but the idle is moving??? rev it up its happy, re-scan its happy, then it seems to settle after holding the revs for a bit - then turn on AC and the idle stays normal ????..... (I always turn off front and rear blower motors doing diagnostics or the battery will be flat).
so I'm wondering when will it next have an issue - what is driving this - low volts - odd software - old age - it just like to play silly ? I know its the later - its the w221 raison d'etre

 

[M80]

It's them.

Or it might be worth thinking of low volt issues on the system,
battery,
alternator,
........

 

[Botus]

thx

I used to use a lot of battery support charging as I don't use it that much - but I thought I was using it enough - but then it loves to eat current, its a greedy bugger,

I do wonder now (after moving some modules back to earlier software trying to revolve a bug they won't) as it made no impact on the bug, I may as well push them back to current updates - and on the seats there's another module for each one that could have an update that never did - so it might help....

 

[ajlsl600]

It's simple modern cars are a nightmare, it's just a case of when not if its goin to f u up. Just like a laptop really designed to be thrown away every 3, 4. yrs that's great if Yr able to fund it. Not so great if pensioner.

 

[Botus]

more on the oddities of this event and iPod and canbus hiccups

the optional horrible iPod interface I think can present some issue merc nor the box manu peiker understood.

the original iPod interface stopped the night enhancement functioning on the early metal rear view cameras, and would have odd moments crashing - but after locking the car, the iPod would wake up next day normal

the very rare later iPod interface 2, with the blue plug to the box -made the vol as loud as the rest of the car, the rear view camera night support came back to life !!! and if you read the iPod thread on another forum one guy had canbus issues and was told after a long dealer visit with german manu support, the canbus bug wouLd ONLY go away with the later iPod 2 kit and so their bug cost him 800 dollars or something

but whilst I have had both and still have the iPod 2 kit in the car, the later one has crashed MUCH more often, and I see canbus bugs show up now and then in diagnostic since I fitted it 3 years ago - and frequently I need to disconnect as I get error message on the cluster it refuses to get over - but aside from last week it always came straight to life and worked perfectly after it was unplugged and re plugged in

I also got a phone call that had come up with the wrong callers name - infact it was an unknown number, so the car was playing silly when it matched a name to a number it had never seen

mine at the moment seems to be canbus fun - now the weather has cheered up - I'll take the lid of the Front SAM and make sure its not doing the usual Mercedes trick of lounging in a swimming pool

 

[Botus]

so actually drove it yesterday (since above), failure mode straight back - diagnostics showing left rear doing nothing at all

tried to check clean the reluctors on the left side wheels after that event but it did nothing to help - infact this time steering went to mental heavy mode and stayed that way, and the gearbox went mad and stuggled to reverse the car reving to 4k rpm... having wasted 2hrs locating the original ABS sensors that I had lying about getting in my way for the last 4 years - I forgot where they were after finally tidying up and moving them at Christmas - found them - buried under more rubbish where I first looked...

first failure with the original sensors I had an intermittent fault, mostly with the park brake being odd and getting worse over 6 months - till it threw a message on the cluster - that was around 12 years and 52k miles - and then lots this age were all dropping like flies worldwide - and with merc recco doing both new on the same axle (not one at a time), I decided to get 4 new ones and avoid a repeat time wasting experience. If I remember the retail robbery is about £190 each - I got a main dealer to sell them for £120 each thinking it would be more reliable than some budget junk - WRONG !!!

back then I remember measuring them after an indy has swapped them over for me, 3 were the same resistance and one was lower but still had continuity - then 3 weeks ago driving on a smooth straight bit of road instant failure - threw the car in a right tail spin - gearbox went totally mad, codes everywhere etc. 17 separate fault codes in 5 drive related modules - As above in the first post I think this is a very different scenario to the last time with a different far bigger failure mode

had the back left wheel off again just now, to try a change of sensor as Its not giving any road speed readings at all on the left rear- its dead easy only need the wheel off and three tools 10 mm, socket 11 euro socket, and a single plastic trim bung needs to come out - its a 20 min job - in front of the wheel under the arch liner is a silly multi-pug - it has a big spring clip that pops off sideways really easily - then just wiggle both plugs off together

Before removing, I got one of the old ones out to measure its resistance (a long one, which it turns out is a front) and got 400 whatever's set on 200k ohm - having released its connection on the car measured the left rear sensor on the car - 100% dead - zero continuity - so its coming off.... laid it out measured again dead. pulled both the old short ones out the bag matched the bend to the one I had taken off and measured the resistance 400 whatevers - that'll do - on the car everything is 100% back to normal

there is 100% no damage to the one that came out - the connections were clean and dry with no corrosion - that means in 4 years and only 13k miles its died with a bigger failure than any of the originals - now running a 16 year old sensor that's done 52k miles - so advice for others, never buy genuine ABS sensors they are clearly hideously over priced, trash quality junk - its should be £25 each there is nothing to them - and they should never fail

crooks

 

[supernoodle]

Careful, you'll upset the 'thou must only buy parts from MB' crowd.

 

[LostKiwi]

Interesting how on a sample size of 1 failure in 4 sensors you draw the conclusion that all MB sensors are crap.

 

[Alastairp]

They come around in the night when you are sleeping and tinker with your car.
It is all part of a much bigger plan to enslave us all.
It all goes back to the 0 to 1500 guy I think (but don’t have any real evidence).
Just sayin’.

 

[ajlsl600]

so actually drove it yesterday (since above), failure mode straight back - diagnostics showing left rear doing nothing at all

tried to check clean the reluctors on the left side wheels after that event but it did nothing to help - infact this time steering went to mental heavy mode and stayed that way, and the gearbox went mad and stuggled to reverse the car reving to 4k rpm... having wasted 2hrs locating the original ABS sensors that I had lying about getting in my way for the last 4 years - I forgot where they were after finally tidying up and moving them at Christmas - found them - buried under more rubbish where I first looked...

first failure with the original sensors I had an intermittent fault, mostly with the park brake being odd and getting worse over 6 months - till it threw a message on the cluster - that was around 12 years and 52k miles - and then lots this age were all dropping like flies worldwide - and with merc recco doing both new on the same axle (not one at a time), I decided to get 4 new ones and avoid a repeat time wasting experience. If I remember the retail robbery is about £190 each - I got a main dealer to sell them for £120 each thinking it would be more reliable than some budget junk - WRONG !!!

back then I remember measuring them after an indy has swapped them over for me, 3 were the same resistance and one was lower but still had continuity - then 3 weeks ago driving on a smooth straight bit of road instant failure - threw the car in a right tail spin - gearbox went totally mad, codes everywhere etc. 17 separate fault codes in 5 drive related modules - As above in the first post I think this is a very different scenario to the last time with a different far bigger failure mode

had the back left wheel off again just now, to try a change of sensor as Its not giving any road speed readings at all on the left rear- its dead easy only need the wheel off and three tools 10 mm, socket 11 euro socket, and a single plastic trim bung needs to come out - its a 20 min job - in front of the wheel under the arch liner is a silly multi-pug - it has a big spring clip that pops off sideways really easily - then just wiggle both plugs off together

Before removing, I got one of the old ones out to measure its resistance (a long one, which it turns out is a front) and got 400 whatever's set on 200k ohm - having released its connection on the car measured the left rear sensor on the car - 100% dead - zero continuity - so its coming off.... laid it out measured again dead. pulled both the old short ones out the bag matched the bend to the one I had taken off and measured the resistance 400 whatevers - that'll do - on the car everything is 100% back to normal

there is 100% no damage to the one that came out - the connections were clean and dry with no corrosion - that means in 4 years and only 13k miles its died with a bigger failure than any of the originals - now running a 16 year old sensor that's done 52k miles - so advice for others, never buy genuine ABS sensors they are clearly hideously over priced, trash quality junk - its should be £25 each there is nothing to them - and they should never fail

crooks

I can tell u wheel speed sensors cause many dramas as many applications use wss input info. What I don't get is why such(clever) kit can't do a sum average when one gets dirty or fails
I hav bought 1 benz at 130 and one febi at, can't remember exact but around 40 I will see which fails first
Of note. Never changed one on 20 Yr old w208 or 21 Yr old w168. So I know mb QC is crap now.
On another note. I also think this kit can provide many errors as I imagine it cloggs up can system with signals.
All in all modern benz have great info screens n and icarsoft shud come built in!!! Someone organising that will become quite wealthy.

 

[Botus]

Interesting how on a sample size of 1 failure in 4 sensors you draw the conclusion that all MB sensors are crap.

2 ABS sensor failures on that car one at 52k miles and one of the four replacements in 13k miles - and when I was checking more thoroughly yesterday, both fronts were dropping out every few seconds (not sure what that means ???)

and as I own a german motorbike and my mate had to - they both suffered a rear ABS sensor failure - that the dealers couldn't resolve (as the diagnostic capability some moron programmed it with is fundamentally flawed) and kept handing it back broken (for him over 6 months and two dealerships) - dead sensor wires on BMW bikes is widely reported as normal behaviour

the entire german motor vehicle industry moved lock stock and barrel from solid, fun to drive, stylish vehicles - to designed to fail, tinsel, trinket trash - giving up on engineering integrity and using marketing to push sales through the roof - JUST when they needed to maintain what they used to do to try and save the planet

 

[Botus]

I can tell u wheel speed sensors cause many dramas as many applications use wss input info. What I don't get is why such(clever) kit can't do a sum average when one gets dirty or fails
I hav bought 1 benz at 130 and one febi at, can't remember exact but around 40 I will see which fails first
Of note. Never changed one on 20 Yr old w208 or 21 Yr old w168. So I know mb QC is crap now.
On another note. I also think this kit can provide many errors as I imagine it cloggs up can system with signals.
All in all modern benz have great info screens n and icarsoft shud come built in!!! Someone organising that will become quite wealthy.

her abused focus is the same age on 163 k miles - never had an issue on hers - and the seats are wonderful with perfect lumbar support - in ways no german car has ever landed

re post 9 - guy at work is dead sure german cars get these odd seats to allow space for the lizard tails - maybe V have a problem

 

[lewyboy]

A lot of this thread appears to be written in Word Spaghetti.

 

[ajlsl600]

Overriding point is what appears to be in many cases a dtf policy on benz in particular and maybe plenty others. That certainly did not exist of 2002 and older benz . Of that there is not the slightest doubt in my mind ( based on benz ownership since 2001.) there will not be another.. I refuse to lease, rent, or be a lemming so only choice is avoid.

 

[Botus]

hey @ lostkiwi - if you don't mind please - as you seem to think through stuff well and share how you see the world in a clear, concise manner - as my thread would love your thoughts / interpretation of Merc abilities, after reading through this bit of fun below that's nagged the hell out of me on my car

I've had to push across a few pages below...

 

[Botus]

when I first got the car the radio had this perfect graduated fade in and out, where it muted the source into the background (radio, TV, DAB, CD etc.), then faded in the overlay of Comand's own Sat Nav information and or the Comand's TMC messages - when complete, it brought back up the source progressively to wherever you had it.

the Sat Nav or TMC vol was user selectable - key on off / battery disconnected - it just remembered where you'd last used it. And faded in and out reliably.

Then in 2014 a Merc Main dealer did the fourth big 2008 Comand update bringing 3D maps and millions of bug fixes. And even though I said the update is flawed it will disable the AC and you MUST manually recode it to On afterwards - they forgot and I had to go back for them to tick a box I already reminded them to do !!!

Even after the huge update on the Comand unit this Sat Nav or TMC Source Mute overlay feature had the exact same behaviour and operation - still working perfectly as it had originally - in my mind this was the only part of the car where there was ever any evidence of engineering sophistication in play.

The AMP went pop as they do, and I fitted a plug and play facelift Amp - it is exactly the same hardware, mine was just running 6 month newer software from a late 2010 update for facelift cars, rather than the last ever old style pre facelift software released in early 2010. The facelift tuner software worked the same as the original with IDENTICAL functionality everywhere, but with a win - and thus utter madness they forgot they could use on the early or later cars - it gets two cosmetic improvements... the red line showing which station you are on, now left aligns more reliably (rather than just center aligned) so long station names can be displayed better - with the feature working on BOTH euro DAB and the FM tuners - and with a subtle upgrade to the comand menu colour scheme that's more intuitive - showing where you last were, and were you are now - rather than just mush like the original release (its subtle and as I no longer have it can't better describe it)

With the new facelift AMP and those cosmetic improvements, the perfect Sat Nav or TMC Source Mute overlay feature was still operating EXACTLY as it had done beforehand.

Then in Jan 2019 we SCN flashed the Front SAM and the Air suspension, however before we could do any more updates - online XENTRY fell over - Merc had screwed the dealerships and everyone had been offline over Christmas for 3 weeks with a failed upgrade - thus when all Euro dealers went online trying to code thousands of cars trying to get them back out to the customers, it just crashed. So we couldn't do any more....

A few months later we plugged in to Online XENTRY again, and it said MUST flash Rear SAM - its out of date

The garage used, only specialise in fitting genuine interior toy upgrades and has lots of experience - yet claimed he had never seen such a message previously. So we did as we were told and flashed the Rear SAM and it upgraded from factory original of 2006 to a SCN'd 2015 iteration - and from then on (in diagnostics) it always threw a fault about the rear screen sunblind - with it being out of sync.

It was likely also this update that killed the source mute overlay feature - but I forget the exact timeline - I remember that year - either this update or later after doing the Cluster update - as I drove away from the garage I thought the radio speed related vol increase had gone from brilliant to really NASTY. With horrible noticeable steps rather than the once PERFECT gradual imperceptible increases and decrease with road speed it once had all the way till 2019

I guess one update broke both features - but I hadn't used the Sat Nav for a few months - thus unsure if it was the Rear SAM in March 2019 or the Roof Module or Cluster updates we did circa August 2019 - to make me feel better the garage said hard luck - we see it all the time and NEVER managed to get Merc to take ownership for their mistakes - and with it such an old car, highly likely they will NEVER go back and fix it - or even care to hear about it

Once again at my expense trying to resolve the Nav mute overlay feature - after throwing online SCN updates at much of the rest of the car in Oct 2019 we had still got nowhere - So I reluctantly let him flash the Merc SCN nasty original era pre facelift AMP software at the radio - as I suspected would happen - it did nothing for the fade overlay feature - BUT brought back all the rubbish with naff colours... and now we could never go forwards to fix it again

Trying to cheer me up they found some Merc Technical documentation claiming they had made the car with user selectable Vol adjustment for Sat Nav and TMC overlay within Comand user menus - but its not there, and as far as we can see its not hidden even within software using dealer tools either - then it describes the massively over complex SDVC (speed dependent volume control) they'd implemented at build - taking ambient noise levels in the car from the OCP microphone, comparing it to road speed, that might be from the Cluster or might be from the Rear SAM (as that handles speed for the active cruise control), after that the AMP does its bit and its all reprocessed in the Rear SAM before relaying the volume level for a given operation back to the Amp / Comand.

My issue is by the time I knew Merc had broken the car, we'd flashed online to SCN updates all four modules that MIGHT BE related - its why I've been trying to undo it all for years

In the end I bought another Rear SAM and it didn't fix anything - turns out these are a mess up as bought - the current spec replacement part you buy off the shelf at a dealer is later hardware but comes preloaded with bodge it software !!! Its meant to help out third party garages who can fit without coding OR a dealer can software update and then SCN to the current iteration. Only years later did I find out you can't SCN the software iteration it comes with which was the only reason I wanted to fit it - to see if was a release before they broke the Nav mute overlay feature.

As at the time I believed it must be online coded - sadly I went to a garage many in the UK claim is the best of the top three independents - who tasked with fitting and "online coding" this as new part didn't know what they were doing - and bent a pin leaving the SRB and the SAM part connected - and nor did Merc Support - when the garage couldn't SCN or manually code it. Merc should have said you can't on that software release - so its likely those bugs you are ringing us about are coming as you haven't fitted it correctly...

That garage gave the car back with all distronic plus and parking sensor features broken - I drove back - WTF - if it doesn't work put the old one back in "well it was faulty as we couldn't manually code it" (now read two paragraph above again... garage nor merc technical know anything) - they put the old one back - later I found they stole a set of longer wheel bolts from the boot at the same time - but even when "back to standard" the car was never right (that as then unknown, bent pin was still stopping the original fitting back properly) - fortunately it never really let me down, but I'd get random power supply errors show in diagnostics, a message about the dynamic seats, and some other oddities...

In 2021 I went to the some local experts on this forum - to see if they could get the mute overlay feature to function... and they said Comand out of date what do you expect !!! (the lies about the plug and play facelift DAB module - threw them - just like the Amp / tuner its the same hardware - running perfectly suitable better software but merc never noticed - and YES I did try the original Amp - its still alive but getting flaky with DAB module looped out and no still no Nav overlay), I said its not, its Merc are just stupid ...and the garage went "here we go another idiot that thinks he knows more than Merc or Us... "

Then they mentioned a connection issue on the Rear SAM - I said how can you know that ? they never explained their thinking, so I said just SCN the Rear SAM - they couldn't believe the car let them do it - however it made no change for the Mute overlay feature, but low and behold we discovered Merc had gone back and fixed a bug in software they'd been forcing on old cars - The SCN update this time coded off the error about the sunblind synchronization. So as least it cleared a Merc diagnostic bug.

Another visit a week later he said, "why are we bothering - you have a connection issue on the SAM" - but this time he showed me why he was saying this - grabbing and shaking the entire car via the SRB... he said "hear that clicking !!!"

So off I went to fit a pin bush housing on a connection to the Rear SAM the other fools had admitted they broke trying to fit the later Rear SAM. After I unraveled half the worlds wiring so I could see what the hell was going on. Whilst its retaining clips had failed it was actually still fully connected as they glued it in - however after unraveling and untangling by repining half the car's multiplugs tidying up Merc's pathetic attempts at making wiring looms, I could now get routes that stressed connections much less and see enough to find the idiot garage had bent the SRB pin and the two could never connect - hence why the Reading guys were 100% spot on re. a connection issue

So I got another SRB and put it all back together using in my later Rear SAM and went back again to say please SCN this new Rear SAM - where upon they said it won't let us !!! So I'd sorted a few connections, made access easier and sorted the dangerous cruise control getting off Merc's current software release - as current software and SCN updates stops the brakes coming on early enough to slow the car down safely - which had left the active cruise plain dangerous for two years - Yet I still hadn't got anywhere on the Nav mute overlay feature !

 

[Botus]

thousand word limit... continues

Then realising I can't get the support I need - I got the BenzNinja deal and we have been trying to resolve - we've flashed the Rear SAM forward 6 months to a 2007 iteration that can be SCN'd and in XENTRY it allows full manual coding and market customisation and the car seems to drive better - but still no Nav Mute overlay... And we can't get the AMP / Tuner to flash forward to facelift software the security is locked down like crazy... We went back on the OCP and the Cluster... overlay still broken...

leaving me now confident my original diagnosis is Merc plain removed the best feature the car ever had, in a mistake very early on in the models life cycle - where a broken Rear SAM update most cars never got (hence few complaints) - meant they wiped out the source mute for Nav / TMC overlay feature - as the idiots still believed an out of date early development tech doc that claimed they had built user menus in the Comand to adjust it.

Hence the part baked mishandled removal of a feature the car needs - binned in a misunderstood implementation by later engineers, leaves the brilliant but complex Rear SAM SDVC on the cutting room floor - and it was mistake that is ultimately what created utter hell for owners in some of the first two big Comand bug fix releases - when the bad software they pushed at cars broke all Vol control on the entire car and they struggled to resolve it for 6 months for some customers !!!

And thus why we still have part of the nasty resolution in the crappy >75% fade feature I'm left with - as it was part of a bodge on that didn't break old cars on good software, but fixed the no Vol issue for the ones they had destroyed with their bad software

So one day I might waste my life a bit more and go back on the original SAM software just to prove I'm right and try and explain to an uninterested manu they have no idea what they are doing...


pulling the 8 !!! Rear SAM software releases apart - not that I can understand or edit - but - one can see the code structure of the first iteration is by far the most different...

and quite how we end up with so many ??? or the fact they still believe a very dangerous facelift update that's badly impacting safety systems is to be pushed on the Rear SAM is OK - but better, suitable DAB and FM tuner updates must be outlawed....

 

[ajlsl600]

when I first got the car the radio had this perfect graduated fade in and out, where it muted the source into the background (radio, TV, DAB, CD etc.), then faded in the overlay of Comand's own Sat Nav information and or the Comand's TMC messages - when complete, it brought back up the source progressively to wherever you had it.

the Sat Nav or TMC vol was user selectable - key on off / battery disconnected - it just remembered where you'd last used it. And faded in and out reliably.

Then in 2014 a Merc Main dealer did the fourth big 2008 Comand update bringing 3D maps and millions of bug fixes. And even though I said the update is flawed it will disable the AC and you MUST manually recode it to On afterwards - they forgot and I had to go back for them to tick a box I already reminded them to do !!!

Even after the huge update on the Comand unit this Sat Nav or TMC Source Mute overlay feature had the exact same behaviour and operation - still working perfectly as it had originally - in my mind this was the only part of the car where there was ever any evidence of engineering sophistication in play.

The AMP went pop as they do, and I fitted a plug and play facelift Amp - it is exactly the same hardware, mine was just running 6 month newer software from a late 2010 update for facelift cars, rather than the last ever old style pre facelift software released in early 2010. The facelift tuner software worked the same as the original with IDENTICAL functionality everywhere, but with a win - and thus utter madness they forgot they could use on the early or later cars - it gets two cosmetic improvements... the red line showing which station you are on, now left aligns more reliably (rather than just center aligned) so long station names can be displayed better - with the feature working on BOTH euro DAB and the FM tuners - and with a subtle upgrade to the comand menu colour scheme that's more intuitive - showing where you last were, and were you are now - rather than just mush like the original release (its subtle and as I no longer have it can't better describe it)

With the new facelift AMP and those cosmetic improvements, the perfect Sat Nav or TMC Source Mute overlay feature was still operating EXACTLY as it had done beforehand.

Then in Jan 2019 we SCN flashed the Front SAM and the Air suspension, however before we could do any more updates - online XENTRY fell over - Merc had screwed the dealerships and everyone had been offline over Christmas for 3 weeks with a failed upgrade - thus when all Euro dealers went online trying to code thousands of cars trying to get them back out to the customers, it just crashed. So we couldn't do any more....

A few months later we plugged in to Online XENTRY again, and it said MUST flash Rear SAM - its out of date

The garage used, only specialise in fitting genuine interior toy upgrades and has lots of experience - yet claimed he had never seen such a message previously. So we did as we were told and flashed the Rear SAM and it upgraded from factory original of 2006 to a SCN'd 2015 iteration - and from then on (in diagnostics) it always threw a fault about the rear screen sunblind - with it being out of sync.

It was likely also this update that killed the source mute overlay feature - but I forget the exact timeline - I remember that year - either this update or later after doing the Cluster update - as I drove away from the garage I thought the radio speed related vol increase had gone from brilliant to really NASTY. With horrible noticeable steps rather than the once PERFECT gradual imperceptible increases and decrease with road speed it once had all the way till 2019

I guess one update broke both features - but I hadn't used the Sat Nav for a few months - thus unsure if it was the Rear SAM in March 2019 or the Roof Module or Cluster updates we did circa August 2019 - to make me feel better the garage said hard luck - we see it all the time and NEVER managed to get Merc to take ownership for their mistakes - and with it such an old car, highly likely they will NEVER go back and fix it - or even care to hear about it

Once again at my expense trying to resolve the Nav mute overlay feature - after throwing online SCN updates at much of the rest of the car in Oct 2019 we had still got nowhere - So I reluctantly let him flash the Merc SCN nasty original era pre facelift AMP software at the radio - as I suspected would happen - it did nothing for the fade overlay feature - BUT brought back all the rubbish with naff colours... and now we could never go forwards to fix it again

Trying to cheer me up they found some Merc Technical documentation claiming they had made the car with user selectable Vol adjustment for Sat Nav and TMC overlay within Comand user menus - but its not there, and as far as we can see its not hidden even within software using dealer tools either - then it describes the massively over complex SDVC (speed dependent volume control) they'd implemented at build - taking ambient noise levels in the car from the OCP microphone, comparing it to road speed, that might be from the Cluster or might be from the Rear SAM (as that handles speed for the active cruise control), after that the AMP does its bit and its all reprocessed in the Rear SAM before relaying the volume level for a given operation back to the Amp / Comand.

My issue is by the time I knew Merc had broken the car, we'd flashed online to SCN updates all four modules that MIGHT BE related - its why I've been trying to undo it all for years

In the end I bought another Rear SAM and it didn't fix anything - turns out these are a mess up as bought - the current spec replacement part you buy off the shelf at a dealer is later hardware but comes preloaded with bodge it software !!! Its meant to help out third party garages who can fit without coding OR a dealer can software update and then SCN to the current iteration. Only years later did I find out you can't SCN the software iteration it comes with which was the only reason I wanted to fit it - to see if was a release before they broke the Nav mute overlay feature.

As at the time I believed it must be online coded - sadly I went to a garage many in the UK claim is the best of the top three independents - who tasked with fitting and "online coding" this as new part didn't know what they were doing - and bent a pin leaving the SRB and the SAM part connected - and nor did Merc Support - when the garage couldn't SCN or manually code it. Merc should have said you can't on that software release - so its likely those bugs you are ringing us about are coming as you haven't fitted it correctly...

That garage gave the car back with all distronic plus and parking sensor features broken - I drove back - WTF - if it doesn't work put the old one back in "well it was faulty as we couldn't manually code it" (now read two paragraph above again... garage nor merc technical know anything) - they put the old one back - later I found they stole a set of longer wheel bolts from the boot at the same time - but even when "back to standard" the car was never right (that as then unknown, bent pin was still stopping the original fitting back properly) - fortunately it never really let me down, but I'd get random power supply errors show in diagnostics, a message about the dynamic seats, and some other oddities...

In 2021 I went to the some local experts on this forum - to see if they could get the mute overlay feature to function... and they said Comand out of date what do you expect !!! (the lies about the plug and play facelift DAB module - threw them - just like the Amp / tuner its the same hardware - running perfectly suitable better software but merc never noticed - and YES I did try the original Amp - its still alive but getting flaky with DAB module looped out and no still no Nav overlay), I said its not, its Merc are just stupid ...and the garage went "here we go another idiot that thinks he knows more than Merc or Us... "

Then they mentioned a connection issue on the Rear SAM - I said how can you know that ? they never explained their thinking, so I said just SCN the Rear SAM - they couldn't believe the car let them do it - however it made no change for the Mute overlay feature, but low and behold we discovered Merc had gone back and fixed a bug in software they'd been forcing on old cars - The SCN update this time coded off the error about the sunblind synchronization. So as least it cleared a Merc diagnostic bug.

Another visit a week later he said, "why are we bothering - you have a connection issue on the SAM" - but this time he showed me why he was saying this - grabbing and shaking the entire car via the

Had to go take an aspirin!!!!!
Morale here methinks. Choose motor that has wot u want . NEVER GO NEAR AN Upgrade drive it till it won't anymore. Choose another.
With hindsight I prob shud have passed on my ml250, Anyway I am now prob stuck with it.
I will fight tooth n nail to prevent Any update (I don't trust dealers) and where ever poss manage without wot ever fails n needs update and as per adblue, egr delete anything that try to force me into update
My present understanding on updates is its all or none??
If correct I hav no intent to go pay for one update that may? May not cure that issue so benz can load a bucket of other rubbish to f up my day later.

 

[Botus]

A lot of this thread appears to be written in Word Spaghetti.

would love to understand which bits are unclear ?

its a car forum - not an St Annes, and often covering weird faults on extremely complex part baked systems, in some of the most technically advanced cars in the world - where most of the development in the last 20 years has been in hiding whats wrong and why its happening - so of course there will be times where points raised are hard to elucidate and even harder to push into layman's terms for everybody...

part of the point of the forum is to educate others. and a more important element is trying to entertain experts - so they can be drawn in and get excited enough to share their experience, and thus assist in the thinking / diagnosis / and ideally a cure

 

[EmilysDad]

thousand word limit... continues

Then realising I can't get the support I need - I got the BenzNinja deal and we have been trying to resolve - we've flashed the Rear SAM forward 6 months to a 2007 iteration that can be SCN'd and in XENTRY it allows full manual coding and market customisation and the car seems to drive better - but still no Nav Mute overlay... And we can't get the AMP / Tuner to flash forward to facelift software the security is locked down like crazy... We went back on the OCP and the Cluster... overlay still broken...

leaving me now confident my original diagnosis is Merc plain removed the best feature the car ever had, in a mistake very early on in the models life cycle - where a broken Rear SAM update most cars never got (hence few complaints) - meant they wiped out the source mute for Nav / TMC overlay feature - as the idiots still believed an out of date early development tech doc that claimed they had built user menus in the Comand to adjust it.

Hence the part baked mishandled removal of a feature the car needs - binned in a misunderstood implementation by later engineers, leaves the brilliant but complex Rear SAM SDVC on the cutting room floor - and it was mistake that is ultimately what created utter hell for owners in some of the first two big Comand bug fix releases - when the bad software they pushed at cars broke all Vol control on the entire car and they struggled to resolve it for 6 months for some customers !!!

And thus why we still have part of the nasty resolution in the crappy >75% fade feature I'm left with - as it was part of a bodge on that didn't break old cars on good software, but fixed the no Vol issue for the ones they had destroyed with their bad software

So one day I might waste my life a bit more and go back on the original SAM software just to prove I'm right and try and explain to an uninterested manu they have no idea what they are doing...


pulling the 8 !!! Rear SAM software releases apart - not that I can understand or edit - but - one can see the code structure of the first iteration is by far the most different...

and quite how we end up with so many ??? or the fact they still believe a very dangerous facelift update that's badly impacting safety systems is to be pushed on the Rear SAM is OK - but better, suitable DAB and FM tuner updates must be outlawed....

TLDNR ..... is there a precis version?