The end may be nigh

[duncanh]

I am beginning to think that my w203 220cdi estate is finally approaching the end of its useful life.

Having covered 343k miles, it is not surprising.

Over the last couple of months the rear suspension rattles (and squeaks and bangs) have got much worse, the a/c has packed up (may only need gas), rear screen washer tube that goes through the rear wiper motor has sheared and hardly any heat is coming out of the heater.

I could live with these things, until I had some time off over Christmas to look at them. However this weekend it found a couple of new tricks to play.

I turned the key, all normal lights etc on the dash worked, but the starter failed to engage. I did it again, it worked straight away. Later it did it again, this time I had to leave it for ten minutes before it would start. Coming home along the M4 I realised that it had lost most of its power, it was obviously in safe mode. I wonder if the 2 things are related, probably not.

This morning it started straight away, I travelled to work (in safe mode), switched it off, tried to switch it on again and it was dead again.

It might be the started motor, maybe the EIS, maybe a relay, maybe a loose connection, a bad earth, a SAM module. Who knows, but I wont get a chance to have a good look until the weekend.

I am hoping it will start tonight and get me home. If not, the breakdown service will get it home.

I will then park it on the drive and use the wife's car for the rest of the week. Given the multitude of problems and the mileage, I am wondering whether to take it straight to the scrapyard. It would be too difficult to sell in its current state, although it has 2 new tyres (2 weeks ago) and 6 months MOT remaining.

That then raises the question of what to get next. I got the W203 new 12.5 years ago., but will not be getting another new car. I am looking for something equivalent between £10 - 20K. I have seen the bad publicity surrounding the newer Mercedes 4-cyl diesels (same with BMW) and their timing chains, but don't need a 6-cyl and the poorer fuel consumption.

Just how risky are the 651 engines?

It's a bad time of year to be without a car.

 

[television]

re the starting, yes it could be EIS switch (expensive £500+) you need to listen under the bonnet while the key is turned, you have a starter relay, if you can hear a click when the key is turned to start then EIS OK, this leaves the relay or the starter motor (could be a poor ground connection)

 

[R W]

Keep it & fix it, you could spend 10k on a replacement & still have some big bills.
Better the devil you know

 

[SL63 Mark]

Having covered 343k miles,

Barely run in, then

 

[lwbnick]

Don't take it to the scrapyard, I'll buy it!

 

[duncanh]

Don't take it to the scrapyard, I'll buy it!

If I decide to scrap it, I will call you. Apart from the high miles, the engine is perfect, never needs oil between changes.

However, it has a manual gearbox, which might put you off.

 

[Irresistance]

When you say "starter motor fails to engage" do you get like a Dzzzz kind of sound when you turn the key? Or is it just silent? In our W210 the started was very slowly dying... turned out some elements (I cant tell you for sure what they are, here it is called the bendix...?) needed replacement. Done about half a year ago, runs like a charm since then. This started about 4 months before I finally decided to fix it... first it would only fail to start once, then work... then it could be that 6-9 attempts were required...

 

[television]

If I decide to scrap it, I will call you. Apart from the high miles, the engine is perfect, never needs oil between changes.

However, it has a manual gearbox, which might put you off.

Could you answer my post.

 

[lwbnick]

If I decide to scrap it, I will call you. Apart from the high miles, the engine is perfect, never needs oil between changes.

However, it has a manual gearbox, which might put you off.

I'm not put off, please contact me if you do decide to scrap it.

 

[duncanh]

re the starting, yes it could be EIS switch (expensive £500+) you need to listen under the bonnet while the key is turned, you have a starter relay, if you can hear a click when the key is turned to start then EIS OK, this leaves the relay or the starter motor (could be a poor ground connection)

I would be happy to change the starter, or relay, but an EIS fault would mean the end.

Relay B (or is it 8?) in the picture above is the starter relay. When it next fails (last 3 starts have been successful) can I try swapping relay K and relay B (it looks the same). Does anyone know what relay K does?

A loose wire or a bad relay connection would be a good result, but I have not had a chance to check yet. It is dark when I set off for work, and dark when I leave for home.

Where does the engine earth wire connect to (I can see the body connection near the battery)?

If I can fix the starting problem, it will buy ne some time for the other issues.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[duncanh]

re the starting, yes it could be EIS switch (expensive £500+) you need to listen under the bonnet while the key is turned, you have a starter relay, if you can hear a click when the key is turned to start then EIS OK, this leaves the relay or the starter motor (could be a poor ground connection)

I would be happy to change the starter, or relay, but an EIS fault would mean the end.

Relay S in the picture above is the starter relay. When it next fails (last 3 starts have been successful) can I try swapping relay K and relay S (they look the same). Does anyone know what relay K does?

A loose wire or a bad relay connection would be a good result, but I have not had a chance to check yet. It is dark when I set off for work, and dark when I leave for home.

Where does the engine earth wire connect to (I can see the body connection near the battery)?

If I can fix the starting problem, it will buy me some time for the other issues.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[television]

OK so car starting does not help, and that horrible feeling, is it going to start ?

If those 2 relays have the same part numbers that yes you can interchange.

Hopefully the starter motor has enough

It does need the car in the fault condition to work it out.

The ground connection will be a large braided connection form the block to the car body. If the cluster lamps do not go out when in the fault condition, then not a battery connection.

 

[duncanh]

When you say "starter motor fails to engage" do you get like a Dzzzz kind of sound when you turn the key? Or is it just silent?

It appeared to be silent. Next time it fails I will open the bonnet and listen for any noises.

 

[duncanh]

The ground connection will be a large braided connection form the block to the car body. If the cluster lamps do not go out when in the fault condition, then not a battery connection.

Lamps remain fully bright, so I guess that if it is a bad connection, it can only be the starter motor connections or a bad relay connection.

 

[television]

It appeared to be silent. Next time it fails I will open the bonnet and listen for any noises.

The click is tiny, and you need your ear right up to it. The only other ways is to connect a voltmeter up to the small starter wire that comes from the K40/4k2 relay.

K denotes engine electronics

 

[Irresistance]

It appeared to be silent. Next time it fails I will open the bonnet and listen for any noises.

Nono you would hear it from the car. a bit like the sound you would expect if, say, a tooth broke off from the gear and it spins freely. I am thinking that you thus have a different problem.

 

[television]

Nono you would hear it from the car. a bit like the sound you would expect if, say, a tooth broke off from the gear and it spins freely. I am thinking that you thus have a different problem.

In absolute silence I can barley hear any relay click on my car, its in a sealed box under a sound proofed bonnet.

The starter motor is the prime suspect as there are contacts the pass over 100 amps to engage the armature.

 

[duncanh]

The car hasn't failed to start for a couple of days. This is good news, I am still mobile, but also bad news because I can't do any investigation.

Strangely it went into safe mode as usual this morning after a few miles (as it has been doing regularly since the weekend); after an hour I got my power back. This was an hour of continuous driving, no restarts. Another one to look at this weekend.

 

[duncanh]

Update

The car hasn't failed to start since last Monday, though I still have no confidence in it.

I realised that the vehicle was not in limp mode. It was just running very badly, with no power between 2000 and 3000 revs. If I kept it in a low gear, and kept the revs above about 3500, it went reasonably well.

As the poor running started at roughly the same time as the starting issue, I concluded that they may be connected.

The only area that I meddled with was the front fuse box area. Wherein sits the 'modification' to support the EGR shunt. Could I have loosened a connection? It was connected with Scotchloks (what! you must be mad I hear you say).

The shunt had been in place and operating successfully for over 2 years (65K miles). Anyway I removed it and reconnected the EGR wiring.

I did a 60 mile run this morning and had full power again. Not conclusive, but a cause for some optimism.

The squeaks from the rear suspension have disappeared (they will be back when the roads get dry again).

All other faults still present, it has been too cold to do much, and Christmas is getting in the way.

I swapped the starter relay with another identical one in the front SAM, so if it is the relay to blame, other things might fail.

I still suspect the starter motor, but don't feel inclined to change it without clearer evidence. Especially as it appears OK at present.

No doubt the saga will continue.....

 

[JBell]

Lucky you got that mileage out of it, I am at 120k and it's being sold for "Spares or Repairs"