the Politics of Sport

[prwales]

This is a bit rambling, please forgive that, but it gives lots of scope for comebacks...

I'd happily argue that all professional sport is open to political influence.
I also take the view that politicians often use and abuse sport to further their interests and these can be in promoting nationalism, or religious sectarianism or in the class politics we are all familiar with, but most often its just the feelgood factor of a successful team that they hope to associate themselves with.

Olympics
The 1936 Olympics set the scene for Hitler to promote the merits of what we now know to be a vile political system. The Olympiads of the 1960's and 1970's were showcases for Capitalism v Communism. Fascinating stuff.

Post 1991 the political systems rivalry has gone but the host nations have done their best to present their stadia their facilities as an exemplar of how good their society is as a whole.
Q. Has the cost of staging the Olympics become obscene?

Sport has been used to promote some very nasty societies, rebel cricket and rugby tours of Apartheid Era South Africa, and the supporters of such regimes always use the same mantra keep politics out of sport.
Today we have the persecution of Russia's athletes where the real target of ire is Putin but as they can't get him the sports men and women will do just fine.

Footballs governing body FIFA is as corrupt as any Mafia crime family, I suspect shuffling the deckchairs won't make much difference.
Cricket is beset with betting scandals.
Tennis betting and doping

Despite all these negatives the World Cup, the Olympics, the Rugby and Cricket world cups are fabulous spectacles and can and often do present the very best in human endeavour.
So I'd argue that we do need bread and circuses but keeping them clean and fair is an impossible task

Q. With this in mind would anyone agree that adult athletes be allowed any or all performance enhancing drug that they care to use

Q. Is disability sport tokenism? If it isn't where is the level playing field for poor societies?

lots to discuss or ignore

 

[rorywquin]

This is a bit rambling, please forgive that, but it gives lots of scope for comebacks...

I'd happily argue that all professional sport is open to political influence.
I also take the view that politicians often use and abuse sport to further their interests and these can be in promoting nationalism, or religious sectarianism or in the class politics we are all familiar with, but most often its just the feelgood factor of a successful team that they hope to associate themselves with.

Olympics
The 1936 Olympics set the scene for Hitler to promote the merits of what we now know to be a vile political system. The Olympiads of the 1960's and 1970's were showcases for Capitalism v Communism. Fascinating stuff.

Post 1991 the political systems rivalry has gone but the host nations have done their best to present their stadia their facilities as an exemplar of how good their society is as a whole.
Q. Has the cost of staging the Olympics become obscene?

Sport has been used to promote some very nasty societies, rebel cricket and rugby tours of Apartheid Era South Africa, and the supporters of such regimes always use the same mantra keep politics out of sport.
Today we have the persecution of Russia's athletes where the real target of ire is Putin but as they can't get him the sports men and women will do just fine.
So it was ok when they did it to South African sportsmen & women, but not ok when they do it to Russian sports people
Footballs governing body FIFA is as corrupt as any Mafia crime family, I suspect shuffling the deckchairs won't make much difference.
Cricket is beset with betting scandals.
Tennis betting and doping

Despite all these negatives the World Cup, the Olympics, the Rugby and Cricket world cups are fabulous spectacles and can and often do present the very best in human endeavour.
So I'd argue that we do need bread and circuses but keeping them clean and fair is an impossible task

Q. With this in mind would anyone agree that adult athletes be allowed any or all performance enhancing drug that they care to use
Unfair on those that don't want to damage their bodies with drugs
Q. Is disability sport tokenism? If it isn't where is the level playing field for poor societies?

lots to discuss or ignore

Comments in bold underlined above

 

[Craiglxviii]

Right, second try this time assuming no more grand mal computer seizures!

Replies in your text, in bold.

This is a bit rambling, please forgive that, but it gives lots of scope for comebacks...

I'd happily argue that all professional sport is open to political influence.
I also take the view that politicians often use and abuse sport to further their interests and these can be in promoting nationalism, or religious sectarianism or in the class politics we are all familiar with, but most often its just the feelgood factor of a successful team that they hope to associate themselves with.

Olympics
The 1936 Olympics set the scene for Hitler to promote the merits of what we now know to be a vile political system. The Olympiads of the 1960's and 1970's were showcases for Capitalism v Communism. Fascinating stuff. Agreed- one can really chart the ebbs and flows of international influence through the Olympics. In itself that is quite instructive.

Post 1991 the political systems rivalry has gone but the host nations have done their best to present their stadia their facilities as an exemplar of how good their society is as a whole.
Q. Has the cost of staging the Olympics become obscene?

Let's examine that. I'll do a quick analysis to follow. One typical figure is that the average budget overrun is 156%... now that shows that there's either shady accounting, or incompetent accounting, or something else is going on.

Sport has been used to promote some very nasty societies, rebel cricket and rugby tours of Apartheid Era South Africa, and the supporters of such regimes always use the same mantra keep politics out of sport.
Today we have the persecution of Russia's athletes where the real target of ire is Putin but as they can't get him the sports men and women will do just fine.

Hmm, please don't bring politics into your initial post though please. We've seen instances of Russian tampering with drugs tests, in one case they drilled a hole through the wall into the lab to tamper with some samples. That l;evel of involvement cannot be denied.

Footballs governing body FIFA is as corrupt as any Mafia crime family, I suspect shuffling the deckchairs won't make much difference.
Cricket is beset with betting scandals.
Tennis betting and doping

Very much so, although from what I've seen FIFA is much more insidious than all the others put together. There is some evidence of corruption - in terms of favour and influence - at high levels extending to heads of state.

Despite all these negatives the World Cup, the Olympics, the Rugby and Cricket world cups are fabulous spectacles and can and often do present the very best in human endeavour.
So I'd argue that we do need bread and circuses but keeping them clean and fair is an impossible task

Q. With this in mind would anyone agree that adult athletes be allowed any or all performance enhancing drug that they care to use

No. Everyone should compete on their own physical merits. If one athlete is fitter/ stronger/ faster etc than another, the better athlete should win but often doesn't due to a variety of factors- less pain endurance for instance. That is the very nature of driving competition, to inspire the other athletes to push themselves to try to win on their own merits.

Q. Is disability sport tokenism? If it isn't where is the level playing field for poor societies?

No it is not tokenism. I deal regularly with a Paralympian, he views his sport as professionally as anyone I have ever met. So do his support team, so do his athlete comrades. His comrades in the regular non-disabled (or differently-abled, I should say) squad treat their Paralympic colleagues with the utmost of personal and professional respect too.

lots to discuss or ignore

 

[Craiglxviii]

OK, here we go. The costs of the Olympics have increased at a fairly steady rate when viewed on a log scale...

 

[Yugguy]

I think if drugs were allowed then everyone watching would just think "that could be me if I was willing to inject whatever." This would hugely lessen both the impact of an athlete's acheivement and the amount of inspiration that it gave to the grass roots.

 

[PovertySpec]

I think if drugs were allowed then everyone watching would just think "that could be me if I was willing to inject whatever." This would hugely lessen both the impact of an athlete's acheivement and the amount of inspiration that it gave to the grass roots.

It would make some great telly though!

5 second 100m? 30m high jump, 800m javelin?

 

[Craiglxviii]

It would make some great telly though!

5 second 100m? 30m high jump, 800m javelin?

"And today, Olympic history has been made as a Russian female shot putter has broken the 300m barrier..."

 

[prwales]

I don't particularly want to see drug fuelled sport but its very difficult to control and many argue what we see is the test of chemists skills in developing masking drugs than any real sporting contest??? An absolute no no for kids though

 

[JBell]

"And today, Olympic history has been made as a Russian female shot putter has broken the 300m barrier..."

 

[Craiglxviii]

I don't particularly want to see drug fuelled sport but its very difficult to control and many argue what we see is the test of chemists skills in developing masking drugs than any real sporting contest??? An absolute no no for kids though

But the trouble there is, if there is any leeway whatsoever then it'll be used by kids as well as professionals. There might be a delay in that drug making its way over but it will happen, sure as there's carts to horses.

Make the resultant action following a multiple-source-verified positive test be so unpleasant that no-one is willing to use drugs. Long term jail sentences. Denial of any participation in any kind of sport; denial of owning shares in any corporations; denial of directorships; repudiation of any and all awards; name struck off (chiseled out) of any plaques. Make it as shaming as it could possibly be.

The only way for a drugs ban to be effective is for it to be self-policing.

 

[JBell]

With this in mind would anyone agree that adult athletes be allowed any or all performance enhancing drug that they care to use

No drugs should be allowed at all, it should be the best person unaided

Is disability sport tokenism?

Not at all, they are as professional as the able athletes, something to be admired

If it isn't where is the level playing field for poor societies?

There isn't one, it is simply about those that have the best facilities near them and are willing to do the graft

 

[robparker]

Drugs in sport is an interesting subject. Where is the cut off?
For example... two different methods of getting more red blood cells before a competition...
1- High altitude training
2- remove a couple of litres of blood a couple of months before competition, put back in system a couple of days before.
Both do the same thing, but number 1 seems ok, number 2 doesn't.
So then, person 1 has better training info and money and can afford to do this and have a more accurate diet or whatever else, compared to person 2 who doesnt have this information, is that fair?

My brother works very closely with alot of ex-Olympic athletes, and the common stories you hear would shock most viewers.

Bolt, for example, do you think he isnt taking as many drugs as is just about legally possible? 100% he is

 

[prwales]

But the trouble there is, if there is any leeway whatsoever then it'll be used by kids as well as professionals. There might be a delay in that drug making its way over but it will happen, sure as there's carts to horses.

Make the resultant action following a multiple-source-verified positive test be so unpleasant that no-one is willing to use drugs. Long term jail sentences. Denial of any participation in any kind of sport; denial of owning shares in any corporations; denial of directorships; repudiation of any and all awards; name struck off (chiseled out) of any plaques. Make it as shaming as it could possibly be.

The only way for a drugs ban to be effective is for it to be self-policing.

It's an arms race between the chemists and the detectors, and it does seem there are different drugs for different sports. There is also whole collection of shysters prepared to defend these cheats.
What will kill track and field is if heroes like Usain Bolt are found to have cheated.
Perhaps we need a drug free and a any drug you like Olympics. Pharma companies might sponsor the drugged up version, and Health promotion charities might sponsor the drug free games The precedent for this is the MMA movement, scarcely legitimate compared to the various different fighting sports that a participant might use but nevertheless good to watch and popular

 

[prwales]

Quite a few left of centre football clubs missing from this list, Benfica, Barca, Athletico Bilbao, Roma, Bologna

http://outsidewrite.co.uk/left-wing-football-clubs/

the right of centre are well known too Lazio, Real Madrid, our very own Glasgow Rangers, Sporting Lisbon