Thermostats

[RFdesigner]

I asked about this (in terms of finding it etc.) recently and have now found, removed, cleaned checked etc. and decided a new one is in order.

Merc want over £30. German&Swedish offer something labelled 'thermostat' for £5.70, G&S can't confirm if it is the same part, and don't have a pic I can look at.

the car is a 2001 W210 320CDi (straight six)

Is MB my only option?

(I managed to replace a blown xenon lamp last week for £15, merc wanted £90, so it pays to shop around)

thanks in advance

Derek

 

[kth286]

It looks a bit special . Probably to cope with long life coolant additive.

I would not consider a non Mercedes part for something like that.

Get it from the online Inchcape site.

 

[television]

There are firms that make nothing but thermostats nothing wrong with Halfords

 

[John Kerr]

There are firms that make nothing but thermostats nothing wrong with Halfords

I think you might find its a MB part only,if it is anything like a 220 CDI

 

[whitenemesis]

May be MB only but MB don't make thermostats, so should be able to go direct to manufacturer (or via a motor factor)

 

[kth286]

Merc will have drawn up the spec for the part, and the manufacturer will make it to that spec.

Do you really think that the Mercedes contract with the thermostat manufacturer would allow that manufacturer to produce an exact same spec part to be able to be sold in the aftermarket and to undercut Mercedes own item and pinch sales and profitability from Mercedes.

The thermosatat manufacturer would not dare if he wanted more business from Mercedes in the future.

Just because aftermarket parts are promoted as being from the same manufacturer as the original part, do not be confused it is to the same spec. Unless you are naive.

You must have seen/heard of the court cases regarding aftermarket clone wheels, where Mercedes took companies to court and won. And there have been other instances of legal action by Merc in this regard to parts.

 

[Dunhamkid]

I think you will find that the thermostat comes complete with the housing, not sure whether the gasket is seperate. If you fit it yourself, watch that you do not drop the bypass "hose" down the side of the engine when you remove the thermostat.

 

[television]

Not quite so Kieth.
TMD the largest brake manufacture in the world is leading the fight to say who make what for who. They are also the biggest outsider to MB for suppling brake parts and supply more than ATE and bendix supply put together.

Pirre are laso coming forward now saying what they make and for whom.

The suspension makers are just starting to say what they make and for whom

 

[whitenemesis]

kth286...

Is that not against some trading law or somesuch? Manufactures are not tied to one outlet. I think you will find one can purchase genuine MB parts from others not just MB

 

[FIBAMAN]

Most manufacturers will not be be single sourced, that is why it is possible for some vehicles to have different manufacturers for the same piece of kit alternators, brakes etc. Hence the need for long chassis and engine numbers, as these will contain the information on what bits went into that batch of vehicles.

 

[kth286]

whitenemesis

There is only one genuine Merc part, and that is in the Merc box with the hologram logo, like on the credit cards.

Whether you can buy the genuine parts in the Merc boxes from another source except Merc I doubt it. But even if you could it would be the genuine part and not a copy.

If/when you go to a maunufacturer of genuine Merc parts for a replacement, it is not a genuine part, it is an aftermarket replacement and not THE genuine part.

As Television states it is only now that manufactureres of "compatible" parts are starting to get their act together to formalise which parts most represent a spec that is properly compatible to the genuine part.

Would you value a second hand Merc fitted with all aftermarket parts as highly as the car fitted with proper Merc replacement parts ????

Of course you would not.

You are looking at a car to buy and you ask the guy about work done on the car. He say he buys genuine aftermarket parts ie brake discs, pads, exhaust etc etc.

BUT what are the makes of those parts from Eurocarparts he's fitted ???????? He does not know.

IF he had showed you invoices from Mercedes parts you would have been been much better reassured and confident of the future operating ability of the car in question and you would have valued it much higher.

 

[television]

whitenemesis

.
.



As Television states it is only now that manufactureres of "compatible" parts are starting to get their act together to formalise which parts most represent a spec that is properly compatible to the genuine part.

.

.

I did not say the makers of compatible parts , I said the genuine manufacture that made it in the first place


The is a ECC led law that is trying to be put into action so that people are not forced to use garage X.
It is freedom of choice behind the whole thing

 

[wireman]

The stat I got from ECP was fine, and cheap and had exactly the same markings as the one I removed (@130k miles). More to the point it worked as expected.

 

[whitenemesis]

And I suspect it came from the same manufacturer as "genuine" MB parts.

 

[RFdesigner]

I failed to find another supplier so I changed it with an MB part in the end.

The part is sufficiently 'unusual' that I can well imagine MB buying in the actual thermostat then fitting it (permanently) into their own casting, thus I cannot simply pop the old thermostat out of the housing, I need to replace the whole thing.

so £37 later

it works, and the temperature gauge now resolutely points to about 90C when the engine's warmed up.

it's not a complicated job, just very fiddly. I had to buy a 'wobbly' 3/8" drive to get the bolts out due to limited access, and had to work out how to remove some of the coolant feed lines, which were very happy where they were thank you, they needed the plastic U pushed in fully and then a whole lot of wiggling to get free.

One pointer for anyone else, there is a tube from the bottom of the thermostat housing back to the engine. about 2" long. When you've undone the bolts, hold onto this, pushing it down as you move the thermostat up, the thermostat will give with a jerk. The tube is rubber coated but steel centred, so you won't be able to bend it. You will probably have to remove the tube to get the thermostat out, with a lot of wiggling, but it does come. Failing to hold onto the tube ejects it straight down the front of the engine where it lodges in the most inaccessible part of the polybelt and pulleys requiring many long pointy things to remove.

Anyone with the shorter 220 or 270 will probably be able to do this blindfold with one hand tied behind their back

Time taken was just over the hour, I'd already been there the previous week. but I didn't drop the tube this time.

Derek

 

[kth286]

Malcolm

re your previous post.

manufacturer of compatible parts or manufacturer of original parts - it is the same thing - neither can supply the part to the SAME SPEC as the original part in the original car, to the aftermarket.

It is protected by patents etc and as I said previously, because of the tremendous development costs associated with the advancement of car design, the manufacturer will not allow the original parts to be sold for less, and undercut profitability.

As I understand it; the workings are a bit like the pharmaceutical industry where after (say) 10 years a copy generic product is allowed to be sold into the aftermarket, as (say) 10 years is deemed to be sufficient time to recover development costs.

 

[Richard Moakes]

Malcolm

re your previous post.

manufacturer of compatible parts or manufacturer of original parts - it is the same thing - neither can supply the part to the SAME SPEC as the original part in the original car, to the aftermarket.

It is protected by patents etc and as I said previously, because of the tremendous development costs associated with the advancement of car design, the manufacturer will not allow the original parts to be sold for less, and undercut profitability.

As I understand it; the workings are a bit like the pharmaceutical industry where after (say) 10 years a copy generic product is allowed to be sold into the aftermarket, as (say) 10 years is deemed to be sufficient time to recover development costs.

As a person who refuses to pay MB prices for suspension and brake parts (discs and pads), but insists on using reputable OEM manufacturers like ATE or Bilstein, I agree that patent restrictions mean the parts are not the same spec, but it does not necessarily follow that they would be inferior?

MB will always charge more, for the convenience of the dealer network and the investment in R&D and the associated intellectual property rights, but I value the quality alternatives that allow me to run my Mercedes at a lower cost than using dealer supplied parts.

 

[television]

Malcolm

re your previous post.

manufacturer of compatible parts or manufacturer of original parts - it is the same thing - neither can supply the part to the SAME SPEC as the original part in the original car, to the aftermarket.

It is protected by patents etc and as I said previously, because of the tremendous development costs associated with the advancement of car design, the manufacturer will not allow the original parts to be sold for less, and undercut profitability.

As I understand it; the workings are a bit like the pharmaceutical industry where after (say) 10 years a copy generic product is allowed to be sold into the aftermarket, as (say) 10 years is deemed to be sufficient time to recover development costs.

I am sorry but you are not correct, please read the new law 2006 block exemptions, the is a EEC directive to allow people to have their car repaired and serviced using manufactures parts where they choose to, without affecting the guarantee of safety of the car

for 95% of the parts there is no patent, try and get hold of a motor trade magazine and you can read all about it

 

[Dunhamkid]

I failed to find another supplier so I changed it with an MB part in the end.

The part is sufficiently 'unusual' that I can well imagine MB buying in the actual thermostat then fitting it (permanently) into their own casting, thus I cannot simply pop the old thermostat out of the housing, I need to replace the whole thing.

so £37 later

it works, and the temperature gauge now resolutely points to about 90C when the engine's warmed up.

it's not a complicated job, just very fiddly. I had to buy a 'wobbly' 3/8" drive to get the bolts out due to limited access, and had to work out how to remove some of the coolant feed lines, which were very happy where they were thank you, they needed the plastic U pushed in fully and then a whole lot of wiggling to get free.

One pointer for anyone else, there is a tube from the bottom of the thermostat housing back to the engine. about 2" long. When you've undone the bolts, hold onto this, pushing it down as you move the thermostat up, the thermostat will give with a jerk. The tube is rubber coated but steel centred, so you won't be able to bend it. You will probably have to remove the tube to get the thermostat out, with a lot of wiggling, but it does come. Failing to hold onto the tube ejects it straight down the front of the engine where it lodges in the most inaccessible part of the polybelt and pulleys requiring many long pointy things to remove.

Anyone with the shorter 220 or 270 will probably be able to do this blindfold with one hand tied behind their back

Time taken was just over the hour, I'd already been there the previous week. but I didn't drop the tube this time.

Derek

I did warn you about this bypass "hose" in my previous thread!!

 

[kth286]

Malcolm

I understand that you can get your Merc serviced at other dealers; and indeed Merc have made available a very comprehensive package and software and parts availability etc to enable independents to do just that.

BUT non original parts are still not to manufacturers spec.