thinking of a remap,is it worth it?

[h9llw]

thinking of having my 05 c200 cdi remapped,a good company and they reckon 30% torque increase and will also remap autobox to improve shifting.has any of you guys had it done and will it really make much difference to my engine performance?

 

[Cole@MBS]

driven a 220 which was re-mapped, went really well, yours is a 220 just de-mapped, to get it to a 20ltr!

 

[h9llw]

i think it might be worth doin,£300 plus vat.if it gives agood improvement then its money well spent.

 

[M80]

In February I fitted a 'chip box', real simple fit. cost me £63.80 incl postage from Ebay. I've inserted a recent item number and full page address below.

I drive the C220 2001 model (manual). My experience is more low end torque, not masses more but good for me cos I live in the hiils and any extra is useful. It feels like there is more power for overtaking and maybe fuel economy is fractionally improved (accurately monitored over 8K miles).

I can't say that this box makes me say "wow where did that come from" and to appreciate a difference now really I would need to disconnect the box to see what I might be missing. This I might do from curiosity because it would be a simple process, taking maybe two minutes.

Hope this info is useful, feel free to ask for more, Martin.

Item number: 350134039830

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-C-Class-all-CDI-Tuning-Chiptuning-Box_W0QQitemZ350134039830QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item350134039830&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


and some later sales,

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=...rksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=350019803416&_osacat=0

 

[pma]

I see lot of posts on many types of cars about changing the chips re maping ect and then lot of claims about higher MPG power ect now I am not saying they dont work because I dont know but if they do why dont the car makers ( after spending hundreds of millions in R&D ) put this £60 or £70 fix into there cars to make them better than the rest

 

[M80]

Like you I read sellers claims with cynicism. Even users claims could be given with a boy racer style view.
The argument generally, I believe, is that manufacturers make cars for use in many environments and to suite average drive styles. To counter that, does that mean my chip box will be inefficient if I drive in a different environment? With all those sensors under the bonnet I would expect the computers to be able to compensate for differing conditions anyway without changing from manufacturers spec.

I was prompted to go for the 'add on' cos the motor was lumpy as 'eck when pullin out to go up hill, which I gotta do often. This seems to have improved. So for reasons that are a little beyond me, there seems to be something in it. Others report that remapping make a difference, but I was wary of chancing a large outlay.

It would be interesting to see independent technical comparisons, bit like a Which report I guess.

 

[Xtractorfan]

There is no doubt that a remap on a standard engine will improve it no end, manufacturers dont pull the full potential from an engine simply because they want the thing to last longer, and there is always a happy medium, where most people will be quite content with the engine output..then there is the different sized engine argument, you want more power, buy the bigger engined vehicle... Again there is always the one that doesnt work out, for some reason or other the car wont perform well with being chipped..this is always the one that you will hear about.. There are a few guys on here who do remap, flash or chip engines.. so maybe they are the ones to sing the praises of chipping. Certainly I'm in favour..but I think pulling another 30 -40 bhp from an engine would be my preferred limit..

 

[rf065]

There was a chart posted a while back, showing the maximum torque each Mercedes auto box was capable of handling, and the box fitted to 220 CDi's was only rated a little more than it had as standard.

I would be wary about increasing torque by 30%, as using it frequently could land you with an expensive auto box repair.

Russ

 

[h9llw]

i beleive the fact is that manufacturers map there vehicles to suit mr average,in other words use the middle of the availble power.this is suit "most" driving styles and to keep to emissions regulations etc.a good example is vw/audi group.they produce the tdi golf in 90 bhp,110,and even the 150bhp gt tdi.they are all the same engine but run differing software/maps.obviously the 90bhp will be cheaper on insurance and a more sensible drive,this gives more options to customers when buying from new.also mine is a c200 and not a 220 which i beleive is the same engine with different map.if mine is improved by 30% then it will not be putting the same stress on as if i were mapping a 220.please correct me if i,m wrong.

 

[rf065]

i beleive the fact is that manufacturers map there vehicles to suit mr average,in other words use the middle of the availble power.this is suit "most" driving styles and to keep to emissions regulations etc.a good example is vw/audi group.they produce the tdi golf in 90 bhp,110,and even the 150bhp gt tdi.they are all the same engine but run differing software/maps.obviously the 90bhp will be cheaper on insurance and a more sensible drive,this gives more options to customers when buying from new.also mine is a c200 and not a 220 which i beleive is the same engine with different map.if mine is improved by 30% then it will not be putting the same stress on as if i were mapping a 220.please correct me if i,m wrong.

There has been a thread on this already & someone who sells chips used the VW engine as an example, but someone else pointed out that this information is wrong. These engines are not the same at all.

Russ

 

[h9llw]

i have owned the 110 and 150 bhp golfs and they are exactly the same apart from the software.and anothe arguement has to be the brabus upgrades which are approved and warranted by mb,they are all the same principle,tweeking the settings to use the higher end of the permance window originally built into the ecu by manufacturer.i,m sure mb wouldn,t recommend brabus products if there was a chance of stressing gearboxs etc.

 

[rf065]

i have owned the 110 and 150 bhp golfs and they are exactly the same apart from the software.and anothe arguement has to be the brabus upgrades which are approved and warranted by mb,they are all the same principle,tweeking the settings to use the higher end of the permance window originally built into the ecu by manufacturer.i,m sure mb wouldn,t recommend brabus products if there was a chance of stressing gearboxs etc.

The last I heard, Mercedes did not warrant the Brabus chip for the 220CDi, apparently the first ones they fitted destroyed the auto boxes and they were discontinued.

The VW engines are not the same either.

Russ

 

[rf065]

i have owned the 110 and 150 bhp golfs and they are exactly the same apart from the software

This is the answer in the other thread regarding the VW engines where it was said that the only difference was the software.



"Not quite correct....

1.9 TDI 90bhp is the older pump system as with the 110bhp, different turbo and injectors though

1.9 TDI 115 was VW/Audi's first attempt at pumpe-duese (PD) technology
1.9 TDI 130 is the most common PD engine and is different to the 115
1.9 TDI 150 is the "high output" version from VW/Audi and is also different to the 130 (injectors and turbo).

Taking the 90bhp as an example, you can fit the injectors and turbo from a 110bhp model and then re-map to suit but then you have to worry about the clutch slipping and the dual-mass flywheel grumbling from too much torque. OR you can fit transporter van injectors and a PD150 VNT turbo and get nearer 170+bhp but again, clutch and flywheel are potential weak points...."
__________________

 

[h9llw]

can you tell me difference between the vw engines? they are all exact same capacity using the same engine management system and injectors.the only way more out put can be gained is by the way they run ie tuned/mapped. and mb use brabus on lots of models not just the c class,and have a very good reputation around the world.i work as a tech for the police and we run sprinters as riot vans when we got them new from mb they were not upto the permance we needed.mb took them them back and remapped them for us.They are now 8 years old and never had an issue.

 

[rf065]

can you tell me difference between the vw engines? they are all exact same capacity using the same engine management system and injectors.the only way more out put can be gained is by the way they run ie tuned/mapped. and mb use brabus on lots of models not just the c class,and have a very good reputation around the world.i work as a tech for the police and we run sprinters as riot vans when we got them new from mb they were not upto the permance we needed.mb took them them back and remapped them for us.They are now 8 years old and never had an issue.

Can I quote another post from the same thread..............

"I strongly disagree with the suggestion that all the VW TDI's are the same with different maps. Just as with the Merc engines, there are subtle differences that come with each step in power for a given engine size. These can be in the form of different turbos(bigger or variable vane), injectors, intercoolers, heads, manifolds, etc..... I remember reading an article in a VW magazine shortly after the launch of the 150TDI. It went into the technical details in some depth and was quite specific in mentioning the amount of work that had been done to allow the 1.9 to handle the step up in power reliably. A big part of the development went into improving the strength of the crank, conrods and pistons. They admitted that achieving the 150hp was the easy part but making it reliable in the real world was the challenge. Bear this in mind before you try to squeeze 150hp out of the base model 90hp unit."

 

[h9llw]

i,m sure we could argue about this till the cows come home,if you are happy living standard,then thats your option.if we all had the opinion on things then forums wouldn,t exist and we all would be bored on sunday afternoons!

 

[television]

Its OK I am way out with the things that I get up to

 

[GCLTuning]

Hi,

The same chit chat again !

The VAG group engines are all the same bar the injectors,turbo,maps ect . But all can be developed to give the best power out-put. 1.9 TDI (pd) 130 BHP .can make the 170 BHP with ease and reliability.

As long as you deal with a TUV approved company that offers warranty then you will be fine . steer away from Generic MAP's and Tunit box's . Pay for what you get remember.

you should be looking at around £ 300 - £600 for a good slice of development. NOT a £60 ebay resistor in a box.

 

[jberks]

I think to say you can get such performance improvements without any mechanical cost is unrealistic. Yes, it can be done reliably and I strongly agree, always use a reputable firm that provide a warranty, but even with the brabus kit 'approved' by MB, they put some serious restrictions on what they will fit to and when.

Into every engine, there is a margin of extra strength that translates into longevity. A standard diesel engine has quite a bit, a truck engine a lot and an f1 engine, bugger all (2 races and it's shot). It's this extra margin that the manufacturers build in when enhancing the power of an 'identical' engine. I had a 150bhp A3 turbo. The same engine went up to 240bhp in the S3 but I'm not naive enough to think that it was exacly the same engine, however similar the spec appeared.

So, you can use some of that margin, sure, but don't think that you're somehow getting owt for nowt. It may last as long as an untuned unit, after all, some new engines are shot at 90k and other unloved examples are going strong at 150k, but odds are that it won't.
Thats not to say it will be unreliable in the short term. There should still be enough margin that someone who buys new and runs to 130k will probably never see an issue and will walk away saying that we're all daft for claiming that there was a problem. But the poor sap who gets it next may be in for a nasty surprise.

It's a well documented fact that injector wear increases - this is a simple fact of physics. If the injector has a certain flow and you want more fuel - which you must do if you're to get more power, it stands to reason that, either by increasing pressure, holding it open longer or just by the nature of more fuel passing through it, the injector is going to be under increased stress and wear.

I'm not for an instant, suggesting people don't remap just as I'm not suggesting that a reputable tuner like our friend above cant find another compromise point above standard that is still well within the mechanical limits but it must still eat, at least to some extent, into the longevity margin that the manufacturer builds in.

 

[GCLTuning]

Very Respectable comment !

I think to say you can get such performance improvements without any mechanical cost is unrealistic. Yes, it can be done reliably and I strongly agree, always use a reputable firm that provide a warranty, but even with the brabus kit 'approved' by MB, they put some serious restrictions on what they will fit to and when.

Into every engine, there is a margin of extra strength that translates into longevity. A standard diesel engine has quite a bit, a truck engine a lot and an f1 engine, bugger all (2 races and it's shot). It's this extra margin that the manufacturers build in when enhancing the power of an 'identical' engine. I had a 150bhp A3 turbo. The same engine went up to 240bhp in the S3 but I'm not naive enough to think that it was exacly the same engine, however similar the spec appeared.

So, you can use some of that margin, sure, but don't think that you're somehow getting owt for nowt. It may last as long as an untuned unit, after all, some new engines are shot at 90k and other unloved examples are going strong at 150k, but odds are that it won't.
Thats not to say it will be unreliable in the short term. There should still be enough margin that someone who buys new and runs to 130k will probably never see an issue and will walk away saying that we're all daft for claiming that there was a problem. But the poor sap who gets it next may be in for a nasty surprise.

It's a well documented fact that injector wear increases - this is a simple fact of physics. If the injector has a certain flow and you want more fuel - which you must do if you're to get more power, it stands to reason that, either by increasing pressure, holding it open longer or just by the nature of more fuel passing through it, the injector is going to be under increased stress and wear.

I'm not for an instant, suggesting people don't remap just as I'm not suggesting that a reputable tuner like our friend above cant find another compromise point above standard that is still well within the mechanical limits but it must still eat, at least to some extent, into the longevity margin that the manufacturer builds in.