Timing chain issues

[Lee Endean]

Hi guys I’ve recently bought a lemon of a Mercedes 2011 c220 cdi estate, now touch wood so far it’s been ok apart from the steering lock failure, it’s now sitting on 137k, it’s had full service history including a oil and filter change since I’ve had the car how worried should I be about the timing chain as I’ve been reading there common to suffer this problem I can’t hear no like metal rattle on start up but it does make a noise like something priming up then the engine dies down and goes quite, well quite as these engines can be should I be worried, are there no other symptoms of slack or failing chain??

 

[Jasons76]

so you say you have bought a lemon but its been ok so what makes it a lemon,its done a 137k and is 11 years old you have to expect some things might go wrong,as for the chain i wouldn't worry too much about it if it does start to make a noise then you might get away with a tensioner, the tensioner is oil fed so expect a slight noise on start up but nothing too excessive,look at om651 timing chain videos on youtube to listen for the noise of a knackered chain,dont forget these engines are also fitted to the sprinter van and have done galactic mileages just do regular oil changes and you will be fine,if yours has stop start i would turn that off as that can lead to premature chain wear.

 

[Lee Endean]

so you say you have bought a lemon but its been ok so what makes it a lemon,its done a 137k and is 11 years old you have to expect some things might go wrong,as for the chain i wouldn't worry too much about it if it does start to make a noise then you might get away with a tensioner, the tensioner is oil fed so expect a slight noise on start up but nothing too excessive,look at om651 timing chain videos on youtube to listen for the noise of a knackered chain,dont forget these engines are also fitted to the sprinter van and have done galactic mileages just do regular oil changes and you will be fine,if yours has stop start i would turn that off as that can lead to premature chain wear.

Hi mate I mean a lemon as I’m as soon as I got the car it had nothing but problems. But like you said it’s to be expected in a older car and I’ve loads of paper work with the car it’s has a service every year from the records I have I suppose I’m just being paranoid really but do they all make a slight noise on start up it’s like it’s being primed ???

 

[tpn]

Hi guys I’ve recently bought a lemon of a Mercedes 2011 c220 cdi estate, now touch wood so far it’s been ok apart from the steering lock failure, it’s now sitting on 137k, it’s had full service history including a oil and filter change since I’ve had the car how worried should I be about the timing chain as I’ve been reading there common to suffer this problem I can’t hear no like metal rattle on start up but it does make a noise like something priming up then the engine dies down and goes quite, well quite as these engines can be should I be worried, are there no other symptoms of slack or failing chain??

Hi guys I’ve recently bought a lemon of a Mercedes 2011 c220 cdi estate, now touch wood so far it’s been ok apart from the steering lock failure, it’s now sitting on 137k, it’s had full service history including a oil and filter change since I’ve had the car how worried should I be about the timing chain as I’ve been reading there common to suffer this problem I can’t hear no like metal rattle on start up but it does make a noise like something priming up then the engine dies down and goes quite, well quite as these engines can be should I be worried, are there no other symptoms of slack or failing chain??

I would not ignore any start up noise, as allowing a worn chain to progress will mean the difference of being able to replace the chain in situ or having to remove the engine because of damage to the guides.

Whereas the tensioner is hydraulic it is also spring loaded.

This is a good video as it records the sound before and after a chain replacement, though the before sound is that of a car with an advancing chain noise.

This is the official slant on it with the sound embedded.

If you have a problem opening the sound video after downloading it, right click on it and if you have 7 zip go to that and then "open archive" it will then play


engine noise (rattling) after engine start -

Version
7
Function group
05.10 Timing chain drive, toothed belt drive
Date
Validity
Engine 651
Reason for change
Validities updated

Complaint
For approx. 2-5 seconds after starting the engine a clattering or pounding noise may be able to be heard from the area of the chain drive.

Note:

The noise of the complaint must be compared with the reference sound sample in the "Sound" attachment!

File
Designation
KTS OM651.MP3.mp3 Noise complaint, compare with video in 6-10 seconds range.

Cause
The timing chain may be stretched. The reason for this may be the chain tensioner.


Remedy
1. Remove chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Detach rear bracket from air duct housing and detach oil dipstick guide tube at top.

For vehicles with ECO start/stop function:

Remove bolt from starter shield below the chain tensioner, lower shield.

2. Attach measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 without seal and tighten to 20 Nm.

3. Crank engine 2x and set 1st cylinder to ignition TDC. While doing so, determine the highest display value for the measuring chain tensioner throughout the entire procedure. This is generally found at ignition TDC for cylinder 1.

4. Evaluate the value read off on the scale of the measuring chain tensioner according to the vehicle's driven distance:

Vehicle mileage up to 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 82 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 82 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Vehicle mileage over 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 84 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 84 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Work procedure A:

1. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Work procedure B:

1. Replace timing chain (AR05.10-P-7601*).

Note:

Depending on the degree of chain elongation, swirl marks may be found on the cylinder head. These are inconsequential and they do not justify a replacement of the cylinder head.

2. Check of camshaft sprockets.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 may only be replaced if they are seriously worn (pitting, broken tooth tips). An intact sprocket has a uniformly polished surface at the chain inlet; this is not grounds for replacement.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 01 must be replaced (AR05.20-P-6992*).

Notes:

The camshafts do not need to be removed.

The object number is clearly visible on the camshaft sprockets (see picture in attachment).

As of 03/2012 the engines are fitted with the camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 as standard.

3. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Measurement of the elongation of the timing chain must be documented. The documentation is to be sent in together with the removed parts.

The measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 is fitted with an O-ring and a pivoting scale. This makes it easier to read off the elongation.

_______________________________________________________

* Use the corresponding WIS document.


Symptoms

Symptom
Power generation / Engine noise / Noise

Parts

Part number
ES1
ES2
Designation
Quantity
Note
EPC
A 651 050 08 00 Chain tensioner 1 Modified chain tensioner X
A 000 993 82 76 Timing chain 1 X
A 651 052 00 00 Camshaft sprocket 2 Improved steel wheels X

File
Designation
Nockenwellenrad_Teilenummer.JPG.jpg Picture showing where the part number can be found on the camshaft sprocket.

Operation numbers/damage codes

Op. no.
Operation text
Time
Damage code
Note
0513136 Chain tensioner noise


https://mega.nz/file/AtFmWJaS#9_eEaDeHgn...rvHEvl57Cs

 

[Lee Endean]

I would not ignore any start up noise, as allowing a worn chain to progress will mean the difference of being able to replace the chain in situ or having to remove the engine because of damage to the guides.

Whereas the tensioner is hydraulic it is also spring loaded.

This is a good video as it records the sound before and after a chain replacement, though the before sound is that of a car with an advancing chain noise.

This is the official slant on it with the sound embedded.

If you have a problem opening the sound video after downloading it, right click on it and if you have 7 zip go to that and then "open archive" it will then play


engine noise (rattling) after engine start -

Version
7
Function group
05.10 Timing chain drive, toothed belt drive
Date
Validity
Engine 651
Reason for change
Validities updated

Complaint
For approx. 2-5 seconds after starting the engine a clattering or pounding noise may be able to be heard from the area of the chain drive.

Note:

The noise of the complaint must be compared with the reference sound sample in the "Sound" attachment!

File
Designation
KTS OM651.MP3.mp3 Noise complaint, compare with video in 6-10 seconds range.

Cause
The timing chain may be stretched. The reason for this may be the chain tensioner.


Remedy
1. Remove chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Detach rear bracket from air duct housing and detach oil dipstick guide tube at top.

For vehicles with ECO start/stop function:

Remove bolt from starter shield below the chain tensioner, lower shield.

2. Attach measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 without seal and tighten to 20 Nm.

3. Crank engine 2x and set 1st cylinder to ignition TDC. While doing so, determine the highest display value for the measuring chain tensioner throughout the entire procedure. This is generally found at ignition TDC for cylinder 1.

4. Evaluate the value read off on the scale of the measuring chain tensioner according to the vehicle's driven distance:

Vehicle mileage up to 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 82 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 82 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Vehicle mileage over 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 84 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 84 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Work procedure A:

1. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Work procedure B:

1. Replace timing chain (AR05.10-P-7601*).

Note:

Depending on the degree of chain elongation, swirl marks may be found on the cylinder head. These are inconsequential and they do not justify a replacement of the cylinder head.

2. Check of camshaft sprockets.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 may only be replaced if they are seriously worn (pitting, broken tooth tips). An intact sprocket has a uniformly polished surface at the chain inlet; this is not grounds for replacement.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 01 must be replaced (AR05.20-P-6992*).

Notes:

The camshafts do not need to be removed.

The object number is clearly visible on the camshaft sprockets (see picture in attachment).

As of 03/2012 the engines are fitted with the camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 as standard.

3. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Measurement of the elongation of the timing chain must be documented. The documentation is to be sent in together with the removed parts.

The measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 is fitted with an O-ring and a pivoting scale. This makes it easier to read off the elongation.

_______________________________________________________

* Use the corresponding WIS document.


Symptoms

Symptom
Power generation / Engine noise / Noise

Parts

Part number
ES1
ES2
Designation
Quantity
Note
EPC
A 651 050 08 00 Chain tensioner 1 Modified chain tensioner X
A 000 993 82 76 Timing chain 1 X
A 651 052 00 00 Camshaft sprocket 2 Improved steel wheels X

File
Designation
Nockenwellenrad_Teilenummer.JPG.jpg Picture showing where the part number can be found on the camshaft sprocket.

Operation numbers/damage codes

Op. no.
Operation text
Time
Damage code
Note
0513136 Chain tensioner noise


https://mega.nz/file/AtFmWJaS#9_eEaDeHgn...rvHEvl57Cs

Thanks for the detailed response

 

[Lee Endean]

I would not ignore any start up noise, as allowing a worn chain to progress will mean the difference of being able to replace the chain in situ or having to remove the engine because of damage to the guides.

Whereas the tensioner is hydraulic it is also spring loaded.

This is a good video as it records the sound before and after a chain replacement, though the before sound is that of a car with an advancing chain noise.

This is the official slant on it with the sound embedded.

If you have a problem opening the sound video after downloading it, right click on it and if you have 7 zip go to that and then "open archive" it will then play


engine noise (rattling) after engine start -

Version
7
Function group
05.10 Timing chain drive, toothed belt drive
Date
Validity
Engine 651
Reason for change
Validities updated

Complaint
For approx. 2-5 seconds after starting the engine a clattering or pounding noise may be able to be heard from the area of the chain drive.

Note:

The noise of the complaint must be compared with the reference sound sample in the "Sound" attachment!

File
Designation
KTS OM651.MP3.mp3 Noise complaint, compare with video in 6-10 seconds range.

Cause
The timing chain may be stretched. The reason for this may be the chain tensioner.


Remedy
1. Remove chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Detach rear bracket from air duct housing and detach oil dipstick guide tube at top.

For vehicles with ECO start/stop function:

Remove bolt from starter shield below the chain tensioner, lower shield.

2. Attach measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 without seal and tighten to 20 Nm.

3. Crank engine 2x and set 1st cylinder to ignition TDC. While doing so, determine the highest display value for the measuring chain tensioner throughout the entire procedure. This is generally found at ignition TDC for cylinder 1.

4. Evaluate the value read off on the scale of the measuring chain tensioner according to the vehicle's driven distance:

Vehicle mileage up to 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 82 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 82 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Vehicle mileage over 250,000 km:

Elongation of timing chain less than or equal to 84 mm: Perform work procedure A.

Elongation of timing chain greater than 84 mm: Perform work procedure B.

Work procedure A:

1. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Work procedure B:

1. Replace timing chain (AR05.10-P-7601*).

Note:

Depending on the degree of chain elongation, swirl marks may be found on the cylinder head. These are inconsequential and they do not justify a replacement of the cylinder head.

2. Check of camshaft sprockets.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 may only be replaced if they are seriously worn (pitting, broken tooth tips). An intact sprocket has a uniformly polished surface at the chain inlet; this is not grounds for replacement.

Camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 01 must be replaced (AR05.20-P-6992*).

Notes:

The camshafts do not need to be removed.

The object number is clearly visible on the camshaft sprockets (see picture in attachment).

As of 03/2012 the engines are fitted with the camshaft sprockets with object number A 651 052 00 00 as standard.

3. Install new chain tensioner (AR05.10-P-7800*).

Note:

Measurement of the elongation of the timing chain must be documented. The documentation is to be sent in together with the removed parts.

The measuring chain tensioner W 651 589 11 63 00 is fitted with an O-ring and a pivoting scale. This makes it easier to read off the elongation.

_______________________________________________________

* Use the corresponding WIS document.


Symptoms

Symptom
Power generation / Engine noise / Noise

Parts

Part number
ES1
ES2
Designation
Quantity
Note
EPC
A 651 050 08 00 Chain tensioner 1 Modified chain tensioner X
A 000 993 82 76 Timing chain 1 X
A 651 052 00 00 Camshaft sprocket 2 Improved steel wheels X

File
Designation
Nockenwellenrad_Teilenummer.JPG.jpg Picture showing where the part number can be found on the camshaft sprocket.

Operation numbers/damage codes

Op. no.
Operation text
Time
Damage code
Note
0513136 Chain tensioner noise


https://mega.nz/file/AtFmWJaS#9_eEaDeHgn...rvHEvl57Cs

I’ve watched the video my engine does not make that nose at all I can’t hear that distinct metal rattle that I’m sure of

 

[tpn]

yes, but as I said the distinct rattle is at the top end of the scale. You do not want to reach that stage. You need to recognise it before it reaches that stage.
If you concentrate on the restart after the chain being fitted, your car should, ideally, sound like that on a start after an overnight rest.

It should be tight enough that the spring resistance in the tensioner is enough to prevent any noise, rather than waiting for the additional hydraulic resistance of the oil

 

[Lee Endean]

yes, but as I said the distinct rattle is at the top end of the scale. You do not want to reach that stage. You need to recognise it before it reaches that stage.
If you concentrate on the restart after the chain being fitted, your car should, ideally, sound like that on a start after an overnight rest.

It should be tight enough that the spring resistance in the tensioner is enough to prevent any noise, rather than waiting for the additional hydraulic resistance of the oil

Ok thank you I’ll get it checked over

 

[tpn]

There is a measuring device. It is inserted in place of the tensioner.
A bit dear for DIY as it costs around £600.00.