Tyre mileages

[jberks]

Hi all,
There are a lot of discussions as to whether expensive tyre such as Michelin/Continental or budget stuff such as Falken, Khumo etc are the best bet.

Given that there's nothing much in the handling and grip for most of us, it comes down to economics.

The argument goes that cheaper tyres don't last as long as more expensive ones, buy may be better value on a per mile basis, but even that hasn't always been the case in my experience.
When i put the last set on my 270, they were £60ea so the numbers made sense, but a quick look at the tyre sites and it seems the good budget tyres are going up rapidly in price, muddying the argument. In fact, based on the Khumo current prices, if Michelin do indeed last 30k the michelin are actually better value overall.
Tyre mileage varies in use and model so that info helps too.

So what do you get?

I'll start
E270cdi Continental Sport contact 16,500 motorway miles £135 ea so 0.8p per mile
E270cdi Federal S535 16,000 1/2 motorway 1/2 stop-start city £60 so 0.35p per mile.

 

[Blobcat]

On my W211 E320CDI;
27,945 miles from the Michelin Pilot Premacy's (MO) Spec
11,000 Miles so far on the Goodyear NCT5 (MO) spec replacements and they are wearing well

On my W210 E320CDI;
28,175 Continental EcoContact W rating
19,814 Continental EcoContact V rating
25,570 Continental EcoContact V rating
24,393 Continental EcoContact v Rating
11,791 Viking

 

[TonyE300D]

Hi all,
There are a lot of discussions as to whether expensive tyre such as Michelin/Continental or budget stuff such as Falken, Khumo etc are the best bet.

Rather than base your decision on discussions which are subjective and unscientific, why not look at results of the annual tyre tests carried out by the group of car magazines that includes the German "Auto Bild" and the UK's "Auto Express"? Just click on the link:

AUTO EXPRESS TYRE TESTS

 

[jberks]

Rather than base your decision on discussions which are subjective and unscientific, why not look at results of the annual tyre tests carried out by the group of car magazines that includes the German "Auto Bild" and the UK's "Auto Express"? Just click on the link:

AUTO EXPRESS TYRE TESTS

Ah yes - I've read a fair few of them but the conclusion I came to is that there is no conclusion. Everything is a compromise so a good dry tyre may be poor in the wet or else corner badly but stop well. When reading their conclusions I've gone back and compared to their stats. They often don't tie up, in one case, recommending a tyre that came last in the braking test (something I personally class rather more important that wet cornering ability )
Even then, when you look at the actual physical difference rather than the 'graph' you realise that the true difference is fractional in many cases, even between tyres that cost vastly differing amounts.

There are also the comparisons on the german web site (linked from mytyres) but thats anecdotal. If you pay very little you may expect less and so be happy with poor performance. A more expensive tyre may give higher expectations and hence score badly.

 

[David Nock]

54 Plate 270 CDI CLK - all original tyres at 26000. Michelin Premacy, different size fronts to backs.
Backs have 1000/2000 left, that's all. Still not quite on wear bars.
Fronts have another 8000 or so left in them.
72mph on motorways, generally law abiding, auto box of course, mainly longer runs, not much town and city work Dash computer says 40 plus mpg overall since new.

 

[Aussie Nick]

I Know I am going to speak in favour of a Japanese tyre but I hope the owners of Yokohama have nothing to do with whaling.
I have found the yokohama tyres brilliant both on the 4Wd and the C200.
I got 100,000 kms out of the 4Wd yokohama tyres.
The ones on the c class are absolutely brilliant in the wet.
The Tyre distributor recommended them over the Michelins as he had race track tested all his tyres and found the Yokies far superior in the wet.
Japan should immediately stop the whaling

 

[Rory]

I Know I am going to speak in favour of a Japanese tyre but I hope the owners of Yokohama have nothing to do with whaling.
I have found the yokohama tyres brilliant both on the 4Wd and the C200.
I got 100,000 kms out of the 4Wd yokohama tyres.
The ones on the c class are absolutely brilliant in the wet.

What model are the tyres?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

X Plate 320CDi

Goodyear NCT5 (fronts), 25000 mls and 2/3 worn. I expect to see at least 30K out of them. Very impressed with performance of the tyre in all conditions and steering response seems OK. Price circa £100 so good value.

Michelin Primacy (rears), 25000 miles with similar wear to fronts, again expect to see 30K mls. Seem prone to punctures, 2 over 25K, or have I just been unlucky. Good grip and overall performance but are they worth £150 a cover.

Would fit same tyre types again but have decided to fit Pirelli to the fronts to improve steering response.

 

[Aussie Nick]

The are the Yokohama A drive on the C class and Geolander on the 4 WD

 

[Dosco]

X Plate 320CDi

Goodyear NCT5 (fronts), 25000 mls and 2/3 worn. I expect to see at least 30K out of them. Very impressed with performance of the tyre in all conditions and steering response seems OK. Price circa £100 so good value.

Michelin Primacy (rears), 25000 miles with similar wear to fronts, again expect to see 30K mls. Seem prone to punctures, 2 over 25K, or have I just been unlucky. Good grip and overall performance but are they worth £150 a cover.

Would fit same tyre types again but have decided to fit Pirelli to the fronts to improve steering response.

Think on about Pirelli as in my case I managed around 22K when compared with previous Goodyear, Conti's etc giving me in excess of 30k Currently running on Coopers not able to comment though as they have only done about 8k except they are noisy.

My nephew down under has Coopers on his 4WD which are guaranteed to give 60000Km's or they will be changed and yes he has it in writing! (whether they will honor such a guarantee if and when the time comes is anybody's guess!) mind you he needs them living in the outback high in the Grt Dividing Range driving on what the Aussies laughing call 'unsealed' roads.

 

[Rory]

My nephew down under has Coopers on his 4WD which are guaranteed to give 60000Km's or they will be changed ...

I noticed while browsing around a Walmart in the US, that they had tyres with various guaranteed mileages, the highest being 80K (and that's miles of course, not Km's). I looked for the treadwear rating (a US "standard" where, 100 should equal 15K miles) - typical UK OEM tyre is around 200, the 80K miler's at Walmart where rated at Treadwear 600.

I dread to think what they'd be like in the wet.

 

[Aussie Nick]

The yokies (geolander) are good for 100ks and are good in the wet (excellent for a heavy 4WD)The Adrive great in the wet but cannot yet comment on distance

 

[mattsurf]

The rears on my E320 CDI are 80% worn and the fronts 60% after 17,000 miles on Avon ZZ3 tyres - paid £75 each fitted, this equals 1.2 pence per mile (0.3pence per tyre per mile)

 

[rf065]

I noticed while browsing around a Walmart in the US, that they had tyres with various guaranteed mileages, the highest being 80K (and that's miles of course, not Km's). I looked for the treadwear rating (a US "standard" where, 100 should equal 15K miles) - typical UK OEM tyre is around 200, the 80K miler's at Walmart where rated at Treadwear 600.

I dread to think what they'd be like in the wet.

I recall reading something about the mileage guarantees in the USA not being worth the paper they are written on. Basically, a tyre with a 30,000 mile guarantee, will not be replaced if it is bald after 20,000 miles. It is however guaranteed against manufacturing defects for 30,000 miles, but only if it lasts that long. As with everything, it's what is in the small print that tells the real story, not the advertising blurb.

Russ

 

[Dosco]

rf065 makes a valid point, "sorry not faulty, fair wear and tear mate - so be off with you":-D

 

[jp williams]

32,000 miles from each of last 2 sets of Michelin Premacy Tyres on 2002 W210 E220cdi auto estate.
JP

 

[Rory]

I recall reading something about the mileage guarantees in the USA not being worth the paper they are written on. Basically, a tyre with a 30,000 mile guarantee, will not be replaced if it is bald after 20,000 miles. It is however guaranteed against manufacturing defects for 30,000 miles, but only if it lasts that long. As with everything, it's what is in the small print that tells the real story, not the advertising blurb.

Russ

Hmm - I recall it being a treadwear warranty, so I looked it up:

"Tread Wear Mileage Warranty
If the tread on a tire wears down to its wear bars before reaching its warranted mileage, we will issue credit toward a replacement tire on a prorated basis.
For example, if a tire warranted for 40,000 miles wore out after 20,000 miles, you would receive a credit of half the original price of that tire toward the current price of a new replacement tire."

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=538475

 

[rf065]

Hmm - I recall it being a treadwear warranty, so I looked it up:

"Tread Wear Mileage Warranty
If the tread on a tire wears down to its wear bars before reaching its warranted mileage, we will issue credit toward a replacement tire on a prorated basis.
For example, if a tire warranted for 40,000 miles wore out after 20,000 miles, you would receive a credit of half the original price of that tire toward the current price of a new replacement tire."

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=538475

Quoting from Car Bibles.................

A Word on "guaranteed" tyres
When I moved to America, I noticed a lot of tyre shops offering tyres with x,000 mile guarantees. It's not unusual to see 60,000 mile guarantees on tyres. It amazed me that anyone would be foolish enough to put a guarantee on a consumable product given that the life of the tyre is entirely dependent on the suspension geometry of the car it is being used on, the style of driving, the types of road, and the weather. Yet many manufacturers and dealers offer an unconditional* guarantee. There's the catch though. The '*' after the word "unconditional" takes you elsewhere on their information flyer, to the conditions attached to the unconditional guarantee. If you want to claim on that guarantee, typically you'll have to prove the tyres were inflated to the correct pressure all the time, prove they were rotated every 3000 miles, prove the suspension geometry of your car has always been 100%, prove you never drove over 80mph, prove you never left them parked in the baking hot sun or freezing cold ice, and prove you never drove on the freeways. Wording in the guarantee will be similar to:
"used in normal service on the vehicle on which they were originally fitted and in accordance with the maintenance recommendations and safety warnings contained in the attached owner's manual"

and

"The tyres have been rotated and inspected by a participating (tyre brand) tyre retailer every 7,500 miles, and the attached Mounting and Rotation Service Record has been fully completed and signed"

There will typically also be a long list of what isn't covered. For example:

Road hazard injury (e.g., a cut, snag, bruise, impact damage, or puncture), incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance, or improper repair, misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse, uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration, or vandalism, ozone or exposure to weather.

Given that you really can't prove any of this, the guarantee is, therefore, worthless because it is left wide open to interpretation by the dealer and/or manufacturer. For a good example, check out the Michelin warranty or guarantee, available on their website (PDF file).

Don't be taken in by this - it's a sales ploy and nothing more. Nobody - not even the manufacturers - can guarantee that their tyre won't de-laminate or catch a puncture the moment you leave the tyre shop. Buy your tyres based on reviews, recommendations, previous experience and the recommendation of friends. Do not buy one simply because of the guarantee.

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

Russ

 

[Rory]

Don't be taken in by this - it's a sales ploy and nothing more. Nobody - not even the manufacturers - can guarantee that their tyre won't de-laminate or catch a puncture the moment you leave the tyre shop. Buy your tyres based on reviews, recommendations, previous experience and the recommendation of friends. Do not buy one simply because of the guarantee.

I'm sorry I mentioned it now.
The only condition on the Walmart website says:
"Please note: Uneven or premature tire wear caused by a vehicle's mechanical problems is not covered by this warranty."

OK, it's in the US so it doesn't really matter to us. But it's highly likely that Walmart has such a powerful "relationship" with its suppliers that any returns are simply debited from the tyre suppliers account. I find it hard to imagine they would make a huge fuss if everything was in order.

Costco (being another American company) does a similar thing - if you're ever unhappy with anything you buy from Costco you can take it back and they'll refund you. My brother recently took a 4yr old TV/VCR combi back - they looked up the original purchase on the system, refunded his money (enough to buy a reasonable LCD now) and chucked the TV into a cage.

 

[rf065]

The only condition on the Walmart website says:
"Please note: Uneven or premature tire wear caused by a vehicle's mechanical problems is not covered by this warranty."

I'm pretty certain that if you bought the tyres, that statement would be expanded on the receipt or guarantee and list a whole lot of conditions that have to be met.

I think that's what the Car Bible guy is referring to.

Russ