Urgent - Technical Advice Needed

[Sanny]

My 2003 (53) E class Avantgarde Estate was experiencing vibration through the brake pedal at low speed/idle. I took the car to the local MB main dealer where it was allegedly examined and road tested by a technician who reported back that they could find no fault and that all was well.

I remained concerned and had the vehicle checked by the supplying dealer (in another part of the country) who immediately discovered that the lower ball joints were faulty and required to be replaced under warranty.

I am extremely concerned that the fault was missed locally and want to establish how potentially dangerous this problem might have been if it were not for the diligence of the supplying dealer. Please can someone advise?

I have made a complaint to the local dealer and MBUK - so far I have had an apology and the offer of a free service but am so concerned about the previous experience that I no longer have faith in the service department. This is not the first problem experienced with the local service department.

 

[jberks]

I am not a mechanic but I would doubt that the balljoints would be dangerous unless they actually failed (snapped), which is very unlikely. A vibration is a sign of a worn rather than failing joint. Presumably the ones on your car wore prematurely. I suspect the worst that would happen would be uneventyre wear and wheel wobble at speed as you would get if the tracking was maladjusted.
I am afraid all garages are only as good as the mechanics and this forum is full of people who have failed to get simple faults diagnosed by the dealer (including myself). Accept the free service and remind youself that you know your car better than anyone so if you think there is a fault, there is.
Do as you did and keep asking for another opinion .

 

[Arnie]

Perhaps it's not related, but I heard that there is a known noise problem on UK RHD cars due to the location of the hydraulic boost pump for the sensotronic brakes.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

There is more than a simple problem with the Sensotronic brakes and others too.

I know of a few people who have suffered total brake failure, pedal to the floor stuff and no brakes. I know of two cars sent back by owners after a repeated brake failure and who have refused to accept them back on the grounds that they are dangerous. One of them is having trouble and having spent ?150k on his car has stated publicly he will spend the same suing them if they don't replace the car quickly. I guess if he has spent that kind of money a lawyers bill won't trouble him. Trouble is he has a fleet of expensive Mercs.

Its only a matter of time before someone is killed because of deadly brakes in a Mercedes.

I have had two total brake failures in 6 months.....

The drop links dont last long, 20-40k max.

 

[190]

I am not a mechanic but I would doubt that the balljoints would be dangerous unless they actually failed (snapped), which is very unlikely. A vibration is a sign of a worn rather than failing joint. Presumably the ones on your car wore prematurely. I suspect the worst that would happen would be uneventyre wear and wheel wobble at speed as you would get if the tracking was maladjusted.
I am afraid all garages are only as good as the mechanics and this forum is full of people who have failed to get simple faults diagnosed by the dealer (including myself). Accept the free service and remind youself that you know your car better than anyone so if you think there is a fault, there is.
Do as you did and keep asking for another opinion .

Your wrong if the ball joints are worn and are worn bad enough they could jump out of there socket leaving your car with body work damage to the wing you all must remember the old Morris minors when the bottom trunion separated on them and the wheel fell in at the top same thing when the ball joint comes apart. :lol:

 

[martinv]

Urgent - techinal advice needed!

I agree with OlafMaxwell! This is a 2003 car, so the ball joints should last at least 150-200K kms. Our SAAB 9000 is 150K kms and still running on original ball joints, so, if they are replacing ball joints so early in the warranty period, there must be another issue your not hearing about.

I am certainly hoping to get another 200K kms out of our C180's joints.

Sad to hear this in such a lovely car, but keep checking - the warning bells are ringing loudly, hence your question.

Cheers

martinv

 

[jberks]

Sorry 190, sure clearly anything can break, and a broken balljoint could be catastrophic if it occurred at speed. I'm a bit too young to remember problems with moggies, I'm more from a late Viva man myself.
But - I imagine the chances of a balljoint on a new Merc being sufficiently far gone to jump out of the socket are inperceptibly low. Anything other than this extreme case, is not in itself dangerous. I suspect that the steering on moggies were so inprecise that you'd not be aware of it wearing out anyway, plus there was no MOT in those days to keep check on them, plus the structure was far smaller and weaker.
I would expect something far stronger than a pedal vibration if it was that bad. Major steering shake, tramlining etc Hence I stick to my view that it was not dangerous. (though still unnaceptable). And the dealer should still have spotted it.

 

[190]

Sorry 190, sure clearly anything can break, and a broken balljoint could be catastrophic if it occurred at speed. I'm a bit too young to remember problems with moggies, I'm more from a late Viva man myself.
But - I imagine the chances of a balljoint on a new Merc being sufficiently far gone to jump out of the socket are inperceptibly low. Anything other than this extreme case, is not in itself dangerous. I suspect that the steering on moggies were so inprecise that you'd not be aware of it wearing out anyway, plus there was no MOT in those days to keep check on them, plus the structure was far smaller and weaker.
I would expect something far stronger than a pedal vibration if it was that bad. Major steering shake, tramlining etc Hence I stick to my view that it was not dangerous. (though still unnaceptable). And the dealer should still have spotted it.

I do agree with you Mercedes should have picked this up Have seen ball joint worn with no signs of any noise or vibration but the ball joints are worn to excess. You may have been to young to remember the moggie but you must remember the Morris marina then called the Morris Ital same suspension as the moggie.

 

[landover]

Ball joints on mercs are large / there is little chance of them comeing out of the socket. I have never saw one comeing out ever.

 

[martinv]

I have worked on the suspension of a Morris Marina, in the days when I had a FIAT 128 Coupe. I agree that you may not be able to guae the quality of the suspension by the noise factor etc..., But, you can not possibly compare the Marina's suspension with that of 2003 MB!

There must be an underlying issue - logic dictates this!!!

martinv

 

[Sanny]

Urgent - technical assistance needed

Thanks to everyone who replied! I raised this matter at lenght with Mercedes Benz at both local level and even wrote to the Managing Director with a detailed list of failings at local level.

Result was my car has been taken in and given a thorough checkover, had a number of "enhancements" (Yes this is really what MB call them) carried out. These have included replacing the DVD unit for the navigation and replacing the phone link to the Comand unit, both of which parts have needed to be ordered from Germany.

I have been absolutely gobsmacked at the number of "enhancements" for a car which is only just 12 months old. None of these "enhancements" were mentioned when I brought the car in for the original problem but faced with the threat of being sued for negligence MB have suddenly become helpful.

I am going to ask for a full list of "enhancements" for my remaining MB vehicles, and ensure that all work is carried out!

Oh and they offered me a free service for my trouble.

 

[dieselman]

There is a recent release of software updates and modifications to be performed to E class, hence the enhacements.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

I have to sort of agree with jberks except to say that where the failure is premature it might point to an underlying problem making the risk of a total failure higher. With normal wear a problem would arise slowly and a sudden failure would be some time down the road but where the fault has happened prematurely it could indicate more than wear, faulty casting/forging etc.

I would probably accept the service. I would count myself lucky to have found out what MB service is like inside warranty, you will now know to go over the car with a fine comb before you are out of warranty to make sure you pick up any problems.

It is interesting MB did actually listen to you. I tried that too and was told it was an issue between me and the dealer and would have to sort my issues out with the dealer. I asked the MB warranty guy would he call the dealer and make an arrangement to get the car taken in and sorted out. He told me he 'would be unable to telephone the dealer'. I actually had pictures in my mind of this poor pathetic MB cretin tied to his chair with his arms pinned to his sides spending his day working on a speakerphone. Notice how MB will never phone you to tell you your car won't be ready etc? Now you know why...they are all tied up!!

Was it intuition led you to a dealer in another part of the country instead of the local one? We have the same problem where I live, there is a local dealer who is worthless and not to be trusted with your car.

There are a few interesting people here, like piestore, dieselman, andy gale and more who have a wealth of knowledge to share. Why cant we meet these guys when we go to the dealers? They are all being hidden behind these clueless suits who are just an expensive overhead.