W201 190e cosworths???

[Iokarus]

hi,

my knowledge of MBs is somewhat limited having mainly had experience of Fords and VWs, however, i've always loved the look of MBs and taken ever oppertunity to drive one or ride in one.

I coupld of weeks ago i was looking at insurance qoutes any was surprised to find out that i can actually afford to insure a nice car when my insurance renewal comes up in august. I've only been driving for 10 months and im only 18 so insurance is still very expensive, but with my next years insurance the difference in price between a normal car and a much nicer, more powerful car, becomes alot less.

So, the point of the matter is, i've been looking for a W201 190e, either a 2.0L or a 2.3L cosworth. I dont have alot of money to spend and i was wondering what sort of money i would be looking to pay for one that is in reasonable condition without a huge number of miles on the clock.

The decision really is whether i can afford to buy a 2.3 on my budget, otherwise i will go for the 2.0.

So really, any information would be hugely appreciated.

cheers

Phil.

 

[Unleashed]

I'm 18, and only have Pass Plus (been driving about 6 months now), but I paid £600 for my 2.0 190, with 95k, previous lady owner, full MB service history and in very good condition - I know I was very lucky to get such a good deal though.
But I think for a normal 2.0 you'll be looking at roughly a grand for a very good condition one.
As for a 2.3 or a 2.6, maybe £3k or so. If you want a really, really nice 2.6, look at V12s car on www.mercedes190.com - he's selling it for £3500. A fantastic deal! I would snap it up if I had the cash at the moment, it's immaculate and he's done a hell of a lot of work to it.

 

[Iokarus]

thats REALLY REALLY cheap, im paying 1300 atm with pass plus for a 1.8 diesel escort. I got a quote of 1400 for a 2.3 cosworth with 1 years no claims.

Does anyone know any good ways around paying a lot for insurance?

I have about 1500-200 quid to spend and would settle for a reasonable condition 2.3 or 2.5 cosworth or even a 2.6 (is the 2.6 V6 or straight6?), i am able to do some work on it myself.

If i was to buy a cosworth with 110k+ on the clock, would this be too much for such a tuned engine?

 

[squealinneil]

Buy mine. http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=10809

Read the second to last paragraph. It sums up "The Theory on Buying a 190E Cosworth" in a few short words. I've owned two and looked at 20+ before buying the ones I've owned.

Read this for a lesson on the pitfalls of buying a cheap Cosworth. http://merc190uk.forumhoster.com/index.php?showtopic=1278

2.6s are straight, 2 valves per, about 160-165 bhp.

 

[Iokarus]

if only i had a spare 6 and a half grand! It would seem that the 2.5s are very expensive but i had thought that a 2.3 would be alot cheaper because they are older and less desirable?

Also, how expensive are parts. I had though they were alot but it would seem they are ALOT!

 

[Unleashed]

Parts can get quite pricy. My electronic ignition module went, and that was £75 from GSF. But other than that, touch wood, nothing else has gone wrong with mine, so I'm not sure.
If you want ideas though, get a GSF catalogue, or look at their online store and compare prices.

 

[squealinneil]

"i had thought that a 2.3 would be alot cheaper because they are older and less desirable?"

The 2.3-16s were type certified for the US market and sold there, 2.5-16s were never sold there, so consequently they made about 5 times as many 2.3s as 2.5s. Therefore, in theory at least, 2.3 spare parts should be more readily available from specialist salvage yards. Trouble is, if the car's in a scrapyard it's either knackered or had a big prang so the parts might be NFG.

The 2.5s have a duplex timing chain which is much stronger and much more reliable than the simple (single) chain in the 2.3s. Having said that, they both seem to be durable and well built.

DYOR and look at a few before you buy. Even look at the crappy ones so you'll learn more about them.

 

[almandine16v]

Read this for a lesson on the pitfalls of buying a cheap Cosworth. http://merc190uk.forumhoster.com/index.php?showtopic=1278

Thanks for using my experience as a "lesson" for all.

You are asking £6400 for your car. Mine cost £1650 and with all the work completed would cost approximately £2500 to be a minter.

George Fraser's diagnosis was way off the mark in terms of what was actually needed for the car and I have managed to get the car sorted out at a fraction of his costs. In fact some of the faults diagnosed were grossly exaggerated by his mechanics.

I didn't get any constructive advice from people like you so you obviously delight in the misfortune of others.

I have removed the thread so you'll have to try some other form of advertising for your overpriced car.

 

[squealinneil]

Almandine16v,

One of the main reasons for the existence of this (or any specialist BB) is for like minded individuals to share their knowledge and experience to try to help other like minded individuals. If the mistake you made in trying to buy a complicated, rare car on the cheap helps others, where is the problem with that? It was YOU, not me, who started the thread entitled "Oh My God!! Help!" and referred to your £1,650 Ebay Cosworth as a dog. The fact that you have deleted George Fraser's list of the car's failings and recommended work speaks more to your embarrassment than anything else. Are you perhaps thinking to the future when you try to move the car on?

I don't know, have never met or used G. Fraser. You say "In fact some of the faults diagnosed were grossly exaggerated by his mechanics." He seems to be well respected within the MB community and doesn't, from what I've heard have a reputation for padding bills with unnecessary work. Perhaps you and he (and I) have a different idea of a "minter". I would tend to defer to George and to give him and his mechanics the benefit of the doubt. They do have between them several decades experience working on Mercedes, while you've owned a 190E 2.5-16 for what, nearly two weeks now?

As far as constructive advice is concerned I copy my posting (and your response) unedited for anyone who cares to read. I believe I gave you at least one piece: 1) Sell the car back through Ebay.

Maybe the sympathetic tone of my posting eluded you. I thought the tone was given away by the very first line, which reads: " My sympathy Almandine." I don't see anywhere in my post where I "so you obviously delight in the misfortune of others." Could you please point out to me where I take delight in your misfortune? Your response to my post, which begins " Thanks for your kind words guys..." seems to indicate the umbrage you've taken is of recent origin.

"190neil
Posted: Jun 1 2005, 11:42 PM
Report Post Edit PostQuote Post


Apprentice
***

Group: Members
Posts: 22
Member No.: 171
Joined: 28-January 05




My sympathy Almandine.

For what Good Old George is going to want to do your list you could nearly have bought mine, advertised in the Classified section of this BB.

http://merc190uk.forumhoster.com/index.php?showtopic=925

For what it's worth, I think I accurately summed up the Theory On Buying A Mercedes Cosworth in the second to last paragraph -

"With these cars you either pay up front and buy the best you can find or you buy cheap and spend (probably) much more money fixing years of abuse and neglect."

Have you thought about just moving it on through ebay and looking for a more loved example? You might take a small loss, but that might be the best option, rather than spending oodles fixing what you yourself have now described as a dog.

P.S. How are you getting on with the gearbox? have you tried the upside down one handed technique yet?

Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
almandine16v
Posted: Jun 2 2005, 12:21 AM
Report Post Quote Post


Apprentice
***

Group: Members
Posts: 20
Member No.: 348
Joined: 20-May 05




Thanks for your kind words guys...

I've got a weakness when it comes to cars, I tend to throw good money after bad. This car has had about £6/7k spent on it over the past 3 years including a full engine/gearbox rebuild 15k miles ago and a complete new clutch.

I'm not quite ready to give up the ghost just yet, but I can see why the previous owner only managed a paltry 3000 miles in 2 years of ownership.

I'm going to try to get my diff reconditioned or replaced and work my way through the list over time.

I hope to hear from V12 soon for quotes etc

I'm gradually getting the hang of the gearbox but its still tough and sometimes catches me out when trying to make a hurried 3 point turn."



As far as my car being overpriced, I'm afraid you and I will have to agree to disagree on that point, though I do thank you for giving me the opportunity to sing it's praises on a MB BB again. Anyone interested can see the spec, service history and other details here: http://merc190uk.forumhoster.com/index.php?showtopic=925
and also here, where Richard at Mercseller describes it as (I know you'll appreciate his description) "*MINT COSWORTH* 190e 2.5-16 : 1989 (w201)"
http://www.mercseller.com/popup.cfm?p_n=214292&p_i=214292

It would be educational to compare my car with a couple of other "minters" available on the open market. It is quite the bargain compared to these other cars.

http://www.classiccarshop.co.uk/Cars/merc_190e_cosworth.htm

http://www.mercseller.com/popup.cfm?p_n=271863&p_i=271863

Can we expect to see your "dog" turned "minter" for sale at the top end of the Mercedes Cosworth market anytime soon?

 

[pascal]

EM.

This has gone a little off track.

If you have differences of opinion, steming from posts on another forum, please keep it there.

Pascal