W209 CLK - Roof won't close

[tommymac]

Hi all,

Taking advantage of the increased ease of travel, I've driven my car down to southern Europe. It was a beautiful day to drive yesterday with the roof down for the first time in six months. However, when I came to close the roof, nothing happened.

I'm at stage zero on the closing sequence diagnosis:

http://benzbits.com/w209/soft_top/W209_SoftTopOperationDiagnosticAid.pdf

I hold down the button, and nothing at all happens. The windows don't lower, and I can hear no hydraulics. There is no light on the switch (I can't recall if there ever was), and there are no dashboard messages. I've checked the hydraulic oil, and this still sits between minimum and maximum, so I don't believe there is any sort of leak.

My initial view is that this could perhaps be as simple as the fuse for the switch (from reading on here and other sites, I think this switch is S84/10).

Late yesterday I experienced something else, which probably is just coincidence, but maybe worth mentioning here. The key refuses now to lock the car, or release the boot. This could be as simple as the battery in the key maybe? I don't recall ever changing it in the 10 years that I have had the car.

I am experiencing no other electrical issues on the car. Windows can all be lowered, lights all work, radio, aircon etc. No issues.

Would appreciate any thoughts re my guess as to what the problem is, plus any other suggestions.

Where might I find the fuse to S84/10, and would it be visually obvious if it had blown?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[tommymac]

I seem to have found a fuse allocation chart here:

W209 2004 CLK Fuses

Fuse chart layout for W209 2004 CLK Hi, I found a number of posts where people are looking for Fuse box layouts, and didn't find one for the W209. I was looking to take a fuse out to disable the Anti Theft Alarm (ATA). Unfortunately there are other functions which share these same 3 fuses...

www.benzworld.org

But when I look in the relevant fuse box, next to the steering wheel, bay 28 appears to be empty. I'm therefore questioning the accuracy of the fuse allocation chart that I have found.

EDIT: Hmmm... I'm questioning now whether the yellow 20, second up from the bottom on the left is 28. I had counted this as 29, but now I'm not too sure. 29 appears to be auto seat adjustment, which I don't have. Assuming that this is 28 (would appreciate advice), can I validate my assumption that this fuse has blown by swapping it out with another 20, to see if it makes a difference? Or would this be likely to lead to all sorts of other isses?

 

[RhodieBill]

Check the micro switches in the recess at the top of the windscreen. Can make this happen.

 

[tommymac]

Check the micro switches in the recess at the top of the windscreen. Can make this happen.

Thanks for the reply Bill.

What exactly would I be checking for? Presumably it would be from underneath, and would I need to check both sides?

Is this a preferable starting point to switching out the fuses?

 

[tommymac]

Had another look at the fuses. When I take out the Yellow20 that I previously suspected as bay 28, I get an error message ‘please release rollover bar’. Also (with the fuse reinserted), if I raise the boot and try the button to raise the roof, I get a message on the dashboard to show that the boot is open.

Só, the fuse seems ok, as it is going through the checks before raising the roof, but getting stuck somewhere and not generating an error message.

Im curious about the microswitches above the windscreen; where can I find out more about these, particularly what it is that I need to do or look for?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wearsafoxhat]

Have you reset the windows and roll over bar ?. The roof needs to know where these are before it will operate..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tommymac]

Have you reset the windows and roll over bar ?. The roof needs to know where these are before it will operate..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Windows work fine from the buttons in the doors. Nothing happens though when I use the button to raise the roof.

Not sure what you mean about about rollbar? I showed a picture of a rollbar error, this only appeared when I removed the soft top fuse from bay 28. I was trying to establish whether the fuse had blown or not. Or apologies if have I misunderstood your post?

 

[crippo2]

This can happen when the roof, despite being open has not decended fully into its fully packed position.
This failure has the effect of leaving a microswitch which should show the roof as being fully open left in limbo. In these circumstances nothing will happen. The car reports this a an implausible situation, its brain is upset and so does nothing.
The remedy seems to be opening the boot lid, grasping the plastic divider (below which is usable boot space and above which is the folded roof) and moving it briskly so as to joggle the roof into moving slightly downwards, thereby telling the 'roof open' micro switch that it actually is open and OK for closing.
Longer term lubricate all visible bearings.
From this you will know it has happened to me more than once
Good luck, because it might be a lot worse!

 

[tommymac]

This can happen when the roof, despite being open has not decended fully into its fully packed position.
This failure has the effect of leaving a microswitch which should show the roof as being fully open left in limbo. In these circumstances nothing will happen. The car reports this a an implausible situation, its brain is upset and so does nothing.
The remedy seems to be opening the boot lid, grasping the plastic divider (below which is usable boot space and above which is the folded roof) and moving it briskly so as to joggle the roof into moving slightly downwards, thereby telling the 'roof open' micro switch that it actually is open and OK for closing.
Longer term lubricate all visible bearings.
From this you will know it has happened to me more than once
Good luck, because it might be a lot worse!

Thanks Crippo. That's interesting. I would have thought that this would be no different from deciding to close before fully open, so am surprised that it finds itself in limbo. Tried it though, and didn't do the trick unfortunately. I appreciate the suggestion though, thanks

 

[RhodieBill]

Thanks for the reply Bill.

What exactly would I be checking for? Presumably it would be from underneath, and would I need to check both sides?

Is this a preferable starting point to switching out the fuses?

Sorry for the late response.

I only suggest this only because a few years ago I went to purchase a w209 CLK and the lady took me for a drive but stopped afer awhile and retracted the Roof, which worked 100%.

But then the typical British weather decided to dampen the day so we quickly stopped and the lady went to close the Roof, and nothing...... Luckily there was a Tesco with an covered Parking Area very close whereby we both tried to get it to close - no ways!

There was a garage that she was aquainted with closeby so we dashed there, (in the rain) to get it scanned and afterabout 30 minutes sussed out that one of the Sensors at the top of the Roof that tells the Locking Mechanism that the Roof is down was stuck so the car thought the Roof was already down and locked. But this of course confused other Sensors so it wouldn't do anything!

Apparently after I left, (deciding to give the car a "miss") they fiddled with the Switch and everything was back to normal.

Hence my sugestion.

I hope you get it sorted soon.

Regards,

 

[tommymac]

Sorry for the late response.

I only suggest this only because a few years ago I went to purchase a w209 CLK and the lady took me for a drive but stopped afer awhile and retracted the Roof, which worked 100%.

But then the typical British weather decided to dampen the day so we quickly stopped and the lady went to close the Roof, and nothing...... Luckily there was a Tesco with an covered Parking Area very close whereby we both tried to get it to close - no ways!

There was a garage that she was aquainted with closeby so we dashed there, (in the rain) to get it scanned and afterabout 30 minutes sussed out that one of the Sensors at the top of the Roof that tells the Locking Mechanism that the Roof is down was stuck so the car thought the Roof was already down and locked. But this of course confused other Sensors so it wouldn't do anything!

Apparently after I left, (deciding to give the car a "miss") they fiddled with the Switch and everything was back to normal.

Hence my sugestion.

I hope you get it sorted soon.

Regards,

Hi Bill,

No worries at all, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I've been doing a bit of research on this, and come up with a useful video that goes through the microswitches:

I've got a feeling that my focus should be on the one that is the passenger side in mine (S84/11 - around 10 minutes into the video). I'll see if I can get to it, but I'm still not too sure what I should be doing when I do get to see it from underneath. If anyone else has any constructive suggestions, I would be pleased to hear them. thanks

 

[RhodieBill]

Hi Bill,

No worries at all, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I've been doing a bit of research on this, and come up with a useful video that goes through the microswitches:

I've got a feeling that my focus should be on the one that is the passenger side in mine (S84/11 - around 10 minutes into the video). I'll see if I can get to it, but I'm still not too sure what I should be doing when I do get to see it from underneath. If anyone else has any constructive suggestions, I would be pleased to hear them. thanks

Grear Video. Thanks!

 

[tommymac]

I’ve fixed the locking issue, fuse number 8 had blown.

Is it too coincidental that two separate electrical issues could have started on the same day? Perhaps there is something else that I should be looking for in the fuses maybe, something invoked at startup of the roof close sequence?

 

[tommymac]

Spoke too soon, the replacement fuse blew. I'm not an electrician, so am a bit stumped as to what to do now, and feel that there is an electrical issue here that is probably causing the central locking/boot release fuse to blow, while at the same time preventing the roof from closing.

I'm going to have to admit defeat here I think, and try to explain all this to a mechanic, in a language that I don't have a proper grip of.

Any last minute thoughts would be welcome.

 

[RhodieBill]

You should be able to Manually close the Top in the meantime....

ps. Does the Fuse blow instantly, or after a few seconds?

 

[tommymac]

Thanks Bill, that looks like a good workout! I'll see if I can find the straps, I don't recall ever seeing them before.

When I replaced the fuse, I locked and unlocked it several times, released the boot etc, all no problem. When I returned several hours later though there was nothing.

As far as I can establish, everything else on that board seems to be working.

 

[RhodieBill]

Can you hear the Pump at all, because another thing that can cause a Fuse to blow is the Pump over-running. It will blow the Fuse to protect the Pump.

 

[tommymac]

Can you hear the Pump at all, because another thing that can cause a Fuse to blow is the Pump over-running. It will blow the Fuse to protect the Pump.

I don’t recall hearing the pump, and I don’t even think I had the engine running in between changing the fuse, testing it, and finding that it had blown again. I’ll start the car tomorrow morning though, and have a proper listen.

 

[RhodieBill]

As far as I know the Pump should run without the Engine running, just Ignition on. As you know, it's on the Boot. I think on the right hand side looking from the rear. (but I could be wrong there).

 

[tommymac]

Where have I got to today?:

- I don't believe I can hear the pump, nothing sounds unusual
- Checking the handbook again, it suggests that the car needs to have the parking brake on. I have never used the parking brake on the car. I now find that it doesn't operate, although curiously I had the car serviced before my journey, just two weeks ago, and there is a tick against handbrake in the service report. Could this really be the issue? Having always operated the roof without the parking brake until now, it seems unlikely. Thoughts?
- With regard to manually raising the roof:
- I have found the straps for manually raising the roof!
- I have managed to turn the valve screw a full turn
- I don't seem able to pull the locking mechanism out. Is there a knack to this? Ignore. Managed to do it by grabbing on both sides with a lot of force

Also probably worth noting that the light inside the boot switched itself off whilst I was working in there, and I can't seem to reactivate it. Can't even see where the fuse might be on the fuse diagrams. Any thoughts? Maybe can ignore this for now. Returned to the car half hour later, and it was working again. Maybe some sort of timer. Must admit that I am getting concerns about the electrics