W210 E320 CDi not starting on very cold mornings

[umblecumbuz]

Second the battery as the culprit.
Had a similar problem with the 2.1 diesel, and the battery seemed fine. Bought a new battery anyway, and the problem was solved. Fitted the old but good battery again after a few weeks and back came the 'hard-to-start' routine.

I have a Panda diesel, and exactly the same happened with that. The Panda forum has plenty of owners complaining of similar problems (their electric power steering sucks the battery dry). New battery is nearly always the answer.

 

[Frontstep]

Can't agree with battery, op says it starts then stops, I go with the air getting in.

 

[Naraic]

With the drop in temperature, my money's on the battery failing.

All the other suggestions are good ones.

The hardest work any battery will do is turning an engine over. The OP said the car started then stopped...then took a lot to get it going again ie...a long time turning it over which a failing battery just would not do.

Your transparent plastic fuel pipes and associated O rings need renewed because they have gone hard and in cold weather lose their seal...thus, as above, letting air in.

Once again...absolutely nothing to do with your battery.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Can't agree with battery, op says it starts then stops, I go with the air getting in.

Tried my best, but can't find a post where the OP states that it starts and then stops.
It does seem as though charging the battery makes a difference. I know air in the Merc fuel lines is a pain, as I have had to replace O- rings before now, but it doesn't seem to be the culprit this time.
Be interesting to find out the eventual cause.

 

[Naraic]

Tried my best, but can't find a post where the OP states that it starts and then stops.
It does seem as though charging the battery makes a difference. I know air in the Merc fuel lines is a pain, as I have had to replace O- rings before now, but it doesn't seem to be the culprit this time.
Be interesting to find out the eventual cause.

See post #15 which is the one being answered today. The other posts being from early last year.

 

[umblecumbuz]

See post #15 which is the one being answered today. The other posts being from early last year.

Got it, thanks. I was reading only the OP's posts.
Symptoms are not the same, so it could well be air ingress as has been said.

 

[Frontstep]

Get someone else to start car and watch cleaned pipes for air.

 

[Doug1234]

If the starter motor sucks the life out of the battery then would the engine ecu throw a fit and shut down as not enough operating voltage ??

 

[om613]

In post #15 it says the pipes and O rings were changed, May 2015.
Of course they are the usual culprits, air ingress...but after 7 or 8 months?
Unlikely, unless a ham-fisted installation distorted an O ring.

As the above post, I suggested the battery because one of my E320s would just about start on a discharged battery BUT gave electrical problem. The starter pinion would not disengage and the gear selector locked up. With the correct voltage these issues went away. Bit of an aside, that.

I think an internally leaking HP pump throws the EPC dash warning which hasn't been mentioned, whilst external leaks are usually the pipe O rings but can be from the 3 pumps heads.

 

[umblecumbuz]

I was able to ascertain an air leak on my feed pipes by coating each joint externally in grease which helped in eliminating and identifying the leaking culprit.
It proved that an O-ring was at fault so changed all the O-rings as a precaution thereafter.

 

[om613]

^ That's a good idea .
Long term leakage is also evidenced by grit and crud sticking to the area around the pipe end, which is a good clue.

Once one discovers the O ring sizes, it's 'handy' to buy them in a bag of 50.
3 quid for NBR and a bit more for 'Viton' (which is probably not made by DuPont).

 

[JimM]

Hello chaps.

I haven't been here for some time because apart from this cold starting problem and another leaking injectors seal the old girls been very good.

Just last week I decided to replace the fuel filter again and I found the problem.

The filter canister lid was not tight enough.

When I unscrewed it, I was able to undo it by hand when I expected to have to use a strap tool.

I did this before trying to start the engine. When I removed the lid there was only about 3 cm of fuel in the canister when I expected to find it full to the brim.

So this is the cause.

I replaced the element and seal, and used my strap tool to tighten the lid fully.

It's quite hard to do still because there's little room, but it's done.

It took about 6-8 cranks before she fired even though I thought the fuel pump should fill the canister just with the ignition on. Should it?

I did allow the glow plugs to time out twice between tries, but it didn't help. The light comes on each try but they seem to only draw current the first time until I turned the switch off and on again, I'll monitor again and verify this.

She has started on the first try every morning now, and we've had 3 very cold mornings below 4°C since, and I also parked facing uphill deliberately.

I should have done it sooner but didn't suspect the fuel filter canister seal because it's one of the first things I changed.

I also carefully inspected the clear fuel pipes and they are hard at the nozzles. When I wiggle them I can see tiny air bubbles forming around the nozzle barbs although they don't go into the pipes, so I will replace them next. I had the O rings on them replaced before but it didn't fix the problem of course.

So for anyone having this problem I advise to:

1. check the clear plastic fuel lines at the nozzles for hardness and for air in the pipes, and

2. open the fuel filter canister before trying to start the engine, to check if the fuel level is low.

Then replacing the fuel lines and the 6 O ring seals, and the fuel filter and its seal.

Lubricate the canister lid ring first with a little oil or Vaseline or grease, so you can tighten it fully and use a filter strap tool to tighten the ring fully.

I ended up replacing two injectors for leakage on speculation and those were expensive but didn't fix the starting problem.

I hope this helps.

 

[JimM]

By the way chaps...

My car doesn't provide enough voltage to fully charge calcium batteries.

They need at least 14.4 volts to reach full charge.

My car only provides 14.1 volts, measured at the cigar socket.

I'll double check again but please check your charging voltage.

I have the same problem on my S Type, it provides only 13.6 volts after an initial boost at 15.1 volts for the first 5-6 minutes after starting the engine.

Both cars have Exide 017TE batteries, the one in my Merc is new.

Unfortunately all modern batteries contain calcium.

So they only reach 70-80% of their full charge capacity.

They will be fine from spring through autumn, but this means that we should charge them up fully on a smart charger in winter when they are heavily used, if we don't do long journeys.

One more thing to worry about.

 

[om613]

The low pressure lift pump is mechanical, there is no electric in-tank pump. This makes it a sod to bleed out air.

The fuel filter housing states 25 Nm, which is unmeasurable really on a big ring. I do it as tight as I can turn by hand ... which is likely less.

 

[JimM]

The low pressure lift pump is mechanical, there is no electric in-tank pump. This makes it a sod to bleed out air.

The fuel filter housing states 25 Nm, which is unmeasurable really on a big ring. I do it as tight as I can turn by hand ... which is likely less.

.
Thanks, I thought the pump is electric.

Do you have the cold start problem?

By the way, is this model (2002 E320CDi Avantgarde estate) in fact the S210 and not a W210?

This is what's coming up on some motor parts sites and I'm confused.

I've also seen E320T, is this one of those too?

Thanks chaps.

 

[bob 6600]

.


By the way, is this model (2002 E320CDi Avantgarde estate) in fact the S210 and not a W210?

This is what's coming up on some motor parts sites and I'm confused.

I've also seen E320T, is this one of those too?

W210 is the model code, saloon
S210 is the model code, estate
'T model' is also used as a code on some sites for the estate

 

[om613]

.
Thanks, I thought the pump is electric.

Do you have the cold start problem?

Sort of.
The cold weather has hastened the decline of my GPs. Three have failed in succession this Winter. Doesn't help a smoke-free start, as post-glow period helps.

2 Injectors are past their best with readings over the 5 mm^3 limit.
Apparently doesn't affect starting, plus my rail pressure is 'officially' 370 bar as measured on STAR, so the injectors aren't leaking off badly.

 

[JimM]

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

She's been starting on the first try every time since, even at 5°C so it seems the filter seal was the cause.

 

[JimM]

Before I go to the trouble of putting an ad here, is anyone interested in buying my car, nothing special but nothing bad either, looks nice when washed, some tiny stone dings on the bumper and tiny dent or two from being doored in car parks, but not tatty, metallic charcoal, black & charcoal interior, sunroof, cruise control electric seats etc, a very nice driver and great workhorse, about 200k miles, MoT to Oct, reasonable offer?

Let me know for pics and the reg number to do your checks.

Thanks chaps.