W212 diesel estate - wise purchase?

[Droverunner]

So... I've had my 2012 Viano 3.0 Cdi about 14mths now. It's been no trouble, engine/gearbox driving like a dream, everything works, coincidentally it's been brilliant loaded up for two family house clearances and I really enjoy using it. However... truth is it's probably too big... well certainly bigger than we need. Our anticipated uses for its internal space have not quite materialised and 95% of the time it's just me in it. Add to that it's the first vehicle in many decades Mrs D is very reluctant to drive and previously we've always had vehicles we'd swap when the need arose.

Hence wondering about returning to a large estate which is mostly what we've had over the last 20yrs as the main car. Which leads to thoughts of a W212.

Where I want to be with the purchase spend and basic running costs would be a W212 estate with the 2.1 diesel in 170hp or 204hp form. I guess that would see me with the OM651 engine which I see grumbled about on here. The other aspect I've picked up on is subframe rust... is that an issue with the estates too?

Any general thoughts about this model appreciated.

Just at random and I don't mean I'd be looking at these cars but two example of the sort of thing I might consider. You might note both manuals. I know all the guff about how folks hate manuals on here but on balance I'd still prefer one if it was the right car in the right location...

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Note just a random Cambs postcode, not mine.

 

[LostKiwi]

Yes om641 I believe.
And yes rusty subframes affect estates.
Sidestep the 651 issues and go for an OM642. You won't regret it.

 

[Droverunner]

>>>Sidestep the 651 issues and go for an OM642. You won't regret it.

Ha ha as an OM642 driver currently I've given that advice to many but would be happy to gain some lower costs looking to the future.... not crucial but perhaps desirable.

Re the subframes then perhaps a full Mercedes history to date would be a worthwhile starting point.

 

[goldy]

I had one for 5 nearly 5 years. Longest I've ever kept a car!
Sticky tailgate was an issue but resolved with dry oil on the hinges.
Got rid as rear self levelling suspension had an intermittent dropping. 2 indies couldn't find the fault so p/x'd it.
Overall a great motor

 

[Droverunner]

Thanks. Which engine was yours and what were your start/end mileages?

 

[Jim2]

Far as I know, subframe rust problems were recognised by MB as a manufacturing fault, and were replaced F.O.C. even on older vehicles. Do a search here on the forum re Subframe Issues, and you will see some good posts on the subject.

 

[s5tuart]

Before I decided on a Shooting Brake I'd started looking at E Class estates.
Nothing wrong with diesel in my humble opinion and certainly the E class is a great car in most guises.
Comfortable and refined and a tardis inside.

 

[M80]

Ours is the 211 estate, worried about potential sub frame rust at MOT I asked him to give it a good look while up high.
"Aren't these alloy sub frame" he asked? It is.
I know the 213 is much later but are they steel?

Biggest issue for the 651 to my mind is cam chain rattle, if caught early with a replacement tensioner and the chain and guides should be saved from deterioration.
There are still possible issues from inlet manifold cracking, but was that resolved for later engines?
They aren't designed for easy repairs for sure.

Did I read that later 642 went to a simplex chain? If so that'd be similar potential issues.
Inlet motor getting oil on it from above isn't too difficult to prevent, worn inlet flaps not so easy.
The regular failing seems to be the oil cooler seals. Are later 642's sorted with that?

I would factor in 15 / 20% difference in fuel economy.

 

[Droverunner]

>>> subframe rust problems were recognised by MB as a manufacturing fault, and were replaced F.O.C. even on older vehicles

Yes I've read many such threads hence my comment perhaps better to buy one with full MB service history as this seems to smooth the path of success in getting a FOC replacement. However still not that keen on the idea a heavy and potentially quick £10-15k used car could suffer such a fault. Wonder what the cost of a subframe is to buy... I would DIY it if the dealers flat refused.

>>>Ours is the 211 estate

I've just looked at pics of your model's subframe and indeed a lovely alloy one just like my much missed E39 BMW estate with the smooth in-line 6cyl diesel. So is it worth going older to the S211 to get the less complex engines and rot free subframes I wonder? How about the S211 body... is that fully galvanised?

>>>Before I decided on a Shooting Brake I'd started looking at E Class estates.

I guess the CLS estate has a smaller loadspace than the E-class... I love the look of them. Just searched a few on Autotrader and sadly the lipped and narrowed entrance to the load space would preclude getting in our two essentials... mum's mobility scooter and a rolled up Zodiac.

 

[Wighty]

Ours is the 211 estate, worried about potential sub frame rust at MOT I asked him to give it a good look while up high.
"Aren't these alloy sub frame" he asked? It is.
I know the 213 is much later but are they steel?

Biggest issue for the 651 to my mind is cam chain rattle, if caught early with a replacement tensioner and the chain and guides should be saved from deterioration.
There are still possible issues from inlet manifold cracking, but was that resolved for later engines?
They aren't designed for easy repairs for sure.

Did I read that later 642 went to a simplex chain? If so that'd be similar potential issues.
Inlet motor getting oil on it from above isn't too difficult to prevent, worn inlet flaps not so easy.
The regular failing seems to be the oil cooler seals. Are later 642's sorted with that?

I would factor in 15 / 20% difference in fuel economy.

Oil cooler seals after 2012 ish changed to the new purple ones . I think the chain went to simplex after 2014 ?? @Uncle Benz mentioned it a couple of weeks ago

 

[Jim2]

Oil cooler seals after 2012 ish changed to the new purple ones . I think the chain went to simplex after 2014 ?? @Uncle Benz mentioned it a couple of weeks ago

It would go to the Simplex one after I bought a 2014 model....

 

[M80]

So is it worth going older to the S211 to get the less complex engines and rot free subframes I wonder?

Ours is the 646 2.1 engine.
I have been v impressed with the car on all fronts. I'm not a racer (any more) so more than enough power for us. I haven't seriously even considered a remap (as I expect to do on the Viano) as the power (torque) availability is more then we need at our speeds.
Best consumption was 57mpg from London the Derbyshire. As we left the A50 and started on the rural roads / hills it dropped to a shade less than 54mpg by the time we had covered the last 30 miles home. With gentle driving the true calculated figure is usually a shade more than OBD.
Mrs Me would like me to swap it for a 212, purely for the squarer headlights, and it can feel a bit retro inside. But that would have to be petrol as her commute would kill a DPF, that the 211 is w/o.

This is the 1st car she has had that I actually look forward to coming out of the Viano and driving. Smooth, quiet and more power. The getting used to different controls is no longer an issue as it's from MB to MB.

 

[s5tuart]

>>> subframe rust problems were recognised by MB as a manufacturing fault, and were replaced F.O.C. even on older vehicles

Yes I've read many such threads hence my comment perhaps better to buy one with full MB service history as this seems to smooth the path of success in getting a FOC replacement. However still not that keen on the idea a heavy and potentially quick £10-15k used car could suffer such a fault. Wonder what the cost of a subframe is to buy... I would DIY it if the dealers flat refused.

>>>Ours is the 211 estate

I've just looked at pics of your model's subframe and indeed a lovely alloy one just like my much missed E39 BMW estate with the smooth in-line 6cyl diesel. So is it worth going older to the S211 to get the less complex engines and rot free subframes I wonder? How about the S211 body... is that fully galvanised?

>>>Before I decided on a Shooting Brake I'd started looking at E Class estates.

I guess the CLS estate has a smaller loadspace than the E-class... I love the look of them. Just searched a few on Autotrader and sadly the lipped and narrowed entrance to the load space would preclude getting in our two essentials... mum's mobility scooter and a rolled up Zodiac.

I agree. The load space is cavernous BUT not as big as the E Class and certainly not as useful. I think mine is 1580 litres? with the rear seats down but as you rightly say the loading space is hampered by the beauty of the design.
Fine for me when I pack it up with amps and guitars but unlikely to accommodate a large chest of drawers etc., which the E would eat easily!

 

[goldy]

Thanks. Which engine was yours and what were your start/end mileages?

E220cdi. 50k and 98k. Routine maintenance.
Only failure was an auxillary battery and rear suspension pipework, aside from last fault.
New pads and discs front and new pads rear.
Swallowed everything put in it. Cruised along.
Defo recommend.

 

[sonic]

I have a 212 E350CDI 2011saloon. Bought it 6 months old & only had one fault, the oil seal on the turbo boost sensor.
New front discs at 60K miles, it still has the original battery. Manages 48 mpg over the year, but very little town driving.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Still some good low mileage S212 E350cdi estates out there run out models were 2012/13 expect to pay £13/14k for a good one at todays hyped valuations

 

[tpn]

So... I've had my 2012 Viano 3.0 Cdi about 14mths now. It's been no trouble, engine/gearbox driving like a dream, everything works, coincidentally it's been brilliant loaded up for two family house clearances and I really enjoy using it. However... truth is it's probably too big... well certainly bigger than we need. Our anticipated uses for its internal space have not quite materialised and 95% of the time it's just me in it. Add to that it's the first vehicle in many decades Mrs D is very reluctant to drive and previously we've always had vehicles we'd swap when the need arose.

Hence wondering about returning to a large estate which is mostly what we've had over the last 20yrs as the main car. Which leads to thoughts of a W212.

Where I want to be with the purchase spend and basic running costs would be a W212 estate with the 2.1 diesel in 170hp or 204hp form. I guess that would see me with the OM651 engine which I see grumbled about on here. The other aspect I've picked up on is subframe rust... is that an issue with the estates too?

Any general thoughts about this model appreciated.

Just at random and I don't mean I'd be looking at these cars but two example of the sort of thing I might consider. You might note both manuals. I know all the guff about how folks hate manuals on here but on balance I'd still prefer one if it was the right car in the right location...

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www.autotrader.co.uk

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www.autotrader.co.uk

Note just a random Cambs postcode, not mine.

As regards the OM651 engine. I have a C220 Estate 2012. Full Mercedes history to 100k and serviced every 6k to 7k miles since with Mercedes parts to include Mercedes branded oil.
No real issues to 100k. It is wearing the front tyres on the inside since 90k miles and the thermostat was getting weak also from that mileage. There is no real camber adjustment in them. You have to get special bolts with a recess along the bolts. This gives you just two settings, on a take it or leave it basis.
I have the bolts, just did not get around to fitting them.

At 110k miles the front and rear discs were well worn. I replaced them with Brembo discs and pads.

At 115k miles the steering lock module gave up. Luckily it failed in the "lock off" position. I repaired it myself. £8.00 for a cheap Chinese motor from Amazon to replace the cheap Chinese motor fitted by Mercedes first day (took more than a few hours to do)- original cheap in quality, a small fortune from Mercedes to replace.

At 126k miles the bottom bolt-2nd from the front- snapped on the inlet manifold. This resulted in an intake leak, with the resultant light and codes, plus the limp mode when ever I looked for boost- I have an icarsoft MB11 so I was able to reset it and keep an eye on my right foot to prevent bringing on the limp mode again.
while I was waiting to do the inlet manifold-again a fortune if done by Mercedes- the Differential Pressure Sensor failed.
£38.00 for a Bosch one off Amazon. Not too bad to fit.

Fitted the Inlet manifold- what a b"+$@rd of a job. As the thermostat was weak I decided to change that at the same time and as there are only two types of a diesel filter holder/heater-those that have leaked, or those that are about to leak-I decided to fit the new upgraded one of those also.
....and while I was at it I cleaned out all the ports, EGR valve etc.

Now at 130k miles I can hear a slight rattle from the timing chain on morning starts. As I heard it straight away I got a new tensioner and fitted it.
It did not make any difference.
I now have a timing chain kit complete with the camshaft wheels to fit. I am hoping that the guides are not damaged. If they are, it is an engine out job.

You just cannot depend on it not to cause one problem after the other. I suppose the gearbox will be the next problem, it is manual. They have a problem with a pin falling out affecting selecting reverse and 2nd gear.

I think it will be back to an Audi for me. Do you really want an OM651 engine?

Conversely a family member has a Kia Rio. It now has 182k miles up and apart from a battery and tyres and oil and filter the only repair jobs it has had is a droplink-a furry friend took a bite out of the rubber seal -and a track rod end, those were fitted at 180k miles; cost £25.00

 

[Craiglxviii]

Yes om641 I believe.
And yes rusty subframes affect estates.
Sidestep the 651 issues and go for an OM642. You won't regret it.

Our E220 Bluetec, from brand new returned an average of… 39.3mpg.

Our R350 CDi, from 97k at purchase has returned an average of 29.8mpg.

At current diesel prices that’s a difference of 7p/ mile or £700/yr.

What’s the cost of fixing a simplex timing chain again..?

 

[JBell]

I think it will be back to an Audi for me.

They have their own problems particularly with EGR's

 

[Craiglxviii]

They have their own problems particularly with EGR's

And the world’s second most uncomfortable seats.

Most uncomfortable = Infiniti Q30. Ugh.