W212 Subframe replaced but not brake pipes.

[Jules13]

Hi.

My 2012 w212 E Class recently failed it's MOT due to corrosion of rear subframe. Mercedes of Taunton have agreed to replace it FOC. They also suggested new front discs, pads and rear brake pipes for around £790. I laughed and said I'd sort discs at my local garage, but while subframe is off, how much just for brake pipes and was quoted £110.
On another MB forum a Master Tech from Merc said his dealership do this free of charge, as the pipes and fittings are pennies really.
Today they phoned me up, seemingly oblivious to my previous quote conversation. They said pipes need replacing and can do me a deal at a reduced labour rate, for £800!!!! I mentioned previous quote which stumped him and he said if that was offered, he'd have to honour it, and I'm waiting to hear back tomorrow.
Am I wrong in thinking that whilst the subframe is off, the brake pipes are a quick easy job as the Master Tech said? £800 seems what they would charge normally, as if it wasn't already having the subframe done.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

There are one or two videos on YouTube showing the W/S212 rear brake pipes when the subframe is removed and yes it is an easy job I’m guessing the second quote included the labour for removing/replacing the subframe the first quote was for replacement when the subframe was removed

 

[ajlsl600]

Tell them to foxtrot Oscar. Go to an indie after if need be. I have heard that pipes can be safely re routed to avoid pipes hiding behind subframe and or dropping it again. Speak to ur local indie and confirm dealer it trying to mug u good time.

 

[AMGeed]

If they honour the quote of £110, get it done.
As said, its an easy job with the subframe removed, but an indy would charge more, once the subframe has been replaced.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Oh, forgot to mention…for anyone reading this thread with a W/S212 it’s easy enough to squirt some Waxoyl onto the rear brakes lines where they cross over the rear axle the rust tends to be around where the brake line clips to the body - bad design MB I’m sorry to say

 

[JBell]

Mercedes Exeter (Same Group) quoted me £1500 to do the Brake Pipes (This was without the subframe replacement)

I had my Indy do them for £300 (they only replaced the corroded bit) they have a guy that has done over 40 of them this year on C and E Class and there is an art to getting the old one out and putting the new piece in without dropping the sub frame.

Mercedes will do the entire piece as they buy it in.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Mercedes Exeter (Same Group) quoted me £1500 to do the Brake Pipes (This was without the subframe replacement)

I had my Indy do them for £300 (they only replaced the corroded bit) they have a guy that has done over 40 of them this year on C and E Class and there is an art to getting the old one out and putting the new piece in without dropping the sub frame.

Mercedes will do the entire piece as they buy it in.

They are well hidden behind a mud/stone/heat shield - no problem on the production line obviously

 

[mioba]

Mercedes Exeter (Same Group) quoted me £1500 to do the Brake Pipes (This was without the subframe replacement)

I had my Indy do them for £300 (they only replaced the corroded bit) they have a guy that has done over 40 of them this year on C and E Class and there is an art to getting the old one out and putting the new piece in without dropping the sub frame.

Mercedes will do the entire piece as they buy it in.

Merc probably tell customers they buy it in and surely have rolls of brake pipe about and make them up.

 

[grayb]

We paid MB Tonbridge about £650 for the brake pipes while they were doing the subframe. Getting the pipes done by our indie afterwards would have cost just as much, so we just did it.

 

[Jason63]

If you replace the whole brake line from connection to the flexible section near the caliper to the joint near the ABS unit, and do that both sides, it's not a small job. Not if you do it carefully, shape it properly and bleed all the air out afterwards.

It will be significantly easier with the subframe removed but it's still a fiddly messy job.

Now you can do it quickly, use copper pipe (bends easily), don't worry about routing it and bending it nicely. Give it a quick bleed. Probably 1/4 the time.

So cheap may not be the best option.

However if MB are quoting a price that includes subframe removal, when the subframe is already off (which the £800 price sounds like to me) either that's a mistake or they're ripping you off.

But, and this is biggie for me, what brake lines will MB fit? Genuine parts are steel, these will rust again and when fitted in a garage the coating will be compromised in places so they will not last as long as the originals.

I would insist on Kunifer (Copper Nickel alloy). It's tough, corrosion resistant and better than the original, in fact easier to fit.

 

[Jules13]

This is where it's a bit confusing. The brake pipes were already changed by an indie garage and they used copper pipes and didn't remove subframe so I'm assuming worked around it. Merc are saying it too dangerous to have that. I've asked for that to be put in an email as what they think is dangerous, could just be that they mean it's not the spec they use. Had the same with front discs. Passed MOT, no advisories but Merc said front discs were Red so needed changing. When I challenged they said their tolerances and minimum values for discs etc, was safer.

 

[EmilysDad]

This is where it's a bit confusing. The brake pipes were already changed by an indie garage and they used copper pipes and didn't remove subframe so I'm assuming worked around it. Merc are saying it too dangerous to have that. I've asked for that to be put in an email as what they think is dangerous, could just be that they mean it's not the spec they use. ....

It's not a good idea to use copper because as it flexes on the car it will work harden & consequently crack/split. As above, you need to use Kunifer, which gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[JBell]

Merc probably tell customers they buy it in and surely have rolls of brake pipe about and make them up.

Nope they come in a long box pre-made and they take one out and put one in, very simple process

 

[Jason63]

Hmmm, how can MB tell the brake lines are copper or Kunifer? The difference once fitted is subtle. You'd be best asking the garage that did it.

Yes copper can work harden and fail, but yes the steel ones corrode and fail.

Many, many garages use copper and it's widely sold. I've never heard of a brake failure due to its use and I had a conversation with my local garage who had done hundreds, if not thousands of cars, over the years with copper - they'd never had a failure.

If you have copper or Kunfier already I'd be happy with that.

On the front discs, yes there a minimum thickness. You check this when you change the pads. The idea is that if the disc is at or below minimum then it won't last for a full set of new pads. The MOT never checks minimum thickness and brake disc failure because they are too thin are extremely rare. So if they were doing the pads then yes change the discs too, if they have just found the discs too thin then they're looking for work.

 

[Jason63]

Nope they come in a long box pre-made and they take one out and put one in, very simple process

When I enquired about brake lines for my C63 I was told that I would get a roll. Makes sense - the front to back rear brake line length is around 4m long and 2m wide, that would be a very big box, about the same footprint as the car! Also to fit it preformed like that you really would have to strip the whole car.

 

[EmilysDad]

....., if they have just found the discs too thin then they're looking for work.

or playing the safety card ....

 

[Jules13]

Update from Merc.
Just had phone call to say car is all done and ready as their mechanic looked again and re-evaluated the copper brake pipes and they are ok. So it's gone from them being so dangerous they would have to be replaced at £800, to now being perfectly ok. Picking car up Friday and then sitting down to write the obligatory sternly worded official complaint.

 

[Charles_henderson]

Hi.

My 2012 w212 E Class recently failed it's MOT due to corrosion of rear subframe. Mercedes of Taunton have agreed to replace it FOC. They also suggested new front discs, pads and rear brake pipes for around £790. I laughed and said I'd sort discs at my local garage, but while subframe is off, how much just for brake pipes and was quoted £110.
On another MB forum a Master Tech from Merc said his dealership do this free of charge, as the pipes and fittings are pennies really.
Today they phoned me up, seemingly oblivious to my previous quote conversation. They said pipes need replacing and can do me a deal at a reduced labour rate, for £800!!!! I mentioned previous quote which stumped him and he said if that was offered, he'd have to honour it, and I'm waiting to hear back tomorrow.
Am I wrong in thinking that whilst the subframe is off, the brake pipes are a quick easy job as the Master Tech said? £800 seems what they would charge normally, as if it wasn't already having the subframe done.

My S212 ( 2011 , 60,000 miles) is going in to Taunton Mercedes this week for a FOC new rear sub frame. I have asked them to check rear brake pipes and replace if needed so I am glad to have their quote of
£110.The corrosion was an advisory on the MOT done by Cornerstone Autos - the tester told me to take it to Merc.When Merc inspected the frame they said they would not have passed it.Will let you know how it goes.After initial scepticism,Merc have behaved well and are giving me a courtesy car as well.

 

[ajlsl600]

Oh, forgot to mention…for anyone reading this thread with a W/S212 it’s easy enough to squirt some Waxoyl onto the rear brakes lines where they cross over the rear axle the rust tends to be around where the brake line clips to the body - bad design MB I’m sorry to say

Wots new?

 

[ajlsl600]

If nothing in the way that's, a 20 min job! Are they replacing end to end as origional or joining before and after where pipe hides behind subframe. If end to end 100 odd not so bad but it is an uncomplicated job , if it's not brake by wire like r230. At least that's, what I believe.