W221 S350 not starting (doesn’t even try) after service.

[Wighty]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That all seems very easy buddy

 

[DSK]

I did ask for them to supply me a starter but they failed to provide one as that’s something I’d try on the off chance. I’d not have the time to do the other diagnostics and make clear sense of the error codes myself so glad it turned out to be a relatively cheap fix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

My 10p worth here..

Sounds like a classic EIS failure to me. Non start-no fault codes. Loss of ABS when driving indicates loss of terminal 30 in operation. Usually common on ML 166 and I'm sure I've had this on S Class too.

I've currently got a B class doing exactly the same thing too.

The EIS is trying to deauthorise when driving by turning off term 30 (ABS needs to see terminal 30). The reason no codes are stored is because the EIS thinks it's doing its job so won't record a fault log. The subsequent non starts are just down to the EIS not completing drive authorisation.

When it doesn't start that's the time to actual value the drive authorisation path.

Whatever the failure is, there's no way you can attribute it to a service being performed. Just plain bad luck and coincidence there.

 

[DSK]

Thanks for this Steve.

This is the kind of info I would have liked from MB centre to advise, just the way you have explained above. Even though the car drove back fine and it’s been ok during test there is something in me that hasn’t got confidence to take it out as I normally would.

I will call MB centre and get a price for doing a new EIS.

Looks like a simple job but surely some coding of the keys to the eis etc is needed. Is there anything specially in relation to coding that must/not be done?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Thanks for this Steve.

This is the kind of info I would have liked from MB centre to advise, just the way you have explained above. Even though the car drove back fine and it’s been ok during test there is something in me that hasn’t got confidence to take it out as I normally would.

I will call MB centre and get a price for doing a new EIS.

Looks like a simple job but surely some coding of the keys to the eis etc is needed. Is there anything specially in relation to coding that must/not be done?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sometimes it just takes having the experience of the particular fault for it to be in your knowledge bank. Electrical faults can be an absolute ball ache to fix as when it works, it works and if you have no obvious data to look at and its any garages worse nightmare.

This B class we have here at the moment was doing some very oddball stuff but leaving no fault codes.

 

[ajlsl600]

Dsk is spot on. The whole story destroys car confidence, like being 200 miles from home when it or related component just decides to give up. My dash scan is far more often and with some apprehension since my last 3 dramas.
Little NG was such a different experience, near nothing to go wrong. Cept headlights went out 2x from 5 am! Fiddlin with headlight switch sorted it. Never driven in dark before so was not aware... But.. None of that requires a f laptop or 500 quid, switch about a fiver. So absolutely no worries or apprehension. Unlike ml.

 

[supernoodle]

You have an icarsoft, on the EIS module page you can verify that the key has been recognised, the T15 (ignition)and T50 (crank request) states.

Similarly on the ECM page you can see the T15 and T50 states that it sees.

Should you have the issue again checking those would give you a good indication where to focus the investigation.

 

[DSK]

Dsk is spot on. The whole story destroys car confidence, like being 200 miles from home when it or related component just decides to give up. My dash scan is far more often and with some apprehension since my last 3 dramas.
Little NG was such a different experience, near nothing to go wrong. Cept headlights went out 2x from 5 am! Fiddlin with headlight switch sorted it. Never driven in dark before so was not aware... But.. None of that requires a f laptop or 500 quid, switch about a fiver. So absolutely no worries or apprehension. Unlike ml.

This is why I’ve not spent any money on anything newer. Too many systems in the way that leave a car stranded and helpless. I’m nervous now, so much so I’ve got a few Jerry cans which I’ll fill up and then just do some test miles where I know I will start the car, drive and not switch off until I come home.

The owner also phoned to follow up and said that significant testing was done, the relay can throw the same symptoms I experienced and they do quite a few EIS jobs. His advise was just relax and drive it. If it does happen again then it’s diagnosis again and an EIS from them is around £550+vat. He’s happy to throw parts at it if I wish but he said seemed reassuring and advised not to.

I’ll just do a few round trips on the local motorway and see how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DSK]

You have an icarsoft, on the EIS module page you can verify that the key has been recognised, the T15 (ignition)and T50 (crank request) states.

Similarly on the ECM page you can see the T15 and T50 states that it sees.

Should you have the issue again checking those would give you a good indication where to focus the investigation.

That’s another saga lol.
I may have a duff unit, I’ll do more test on Wednesday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DSK]

It’s just done it again. Key in, no crank/start with the usual stability inoperative, see owners manual error message. So it appears the starter relay cheap fix was not the cure.

Called MB centre and they said the usual, arrange again to have it recovered. I reminded them saying last time I paid for recovery and they said its not easy and the car would get damaged. MB centre have booked it in for 10/01/2024 and we will keep in touch to see if it starts in between and I can drive it over and leave it there.

If it’s the EIS that’s about £600 upwards but they need the car at the specialist, something to do with using their IP for coding the new EIS. (I thought I’d seen videos online where this part can be changed on the car. )

What a total farse. I seriously can’t understand how this can be happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tode]

I would be thinking about finding another garage . . .

 

[DSK]

Trouble is I’m screwed at present. A few mobile MB specialists I tried won’t come this far.

Going to the likes of the usual recommendations on here is not feasible with a stranded car. I’d be happy to pay for travels for someone to come and just fix it.

As it costs me a day anyway, I was looking to use Alex Forti and Star for servicing and maintenance but, that’s only if this gets fixed now and I keep it.

I think I’m done with MB… £4k on this during December including insurance and I dare/can’t use it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[supernoodle]

Seen it lots before. When a garage gets an intermittent problem and they don't know what the problem is they just install a software update so they can tell the customer they've done something.

Unfortunately with an intermittent problem it's difficult if you don't see it in it's faulty state. Now is the time you need to get a diag tool on it for the live data, especially to see if that T15/T50 signal is raised and seen by the other modules.

Post event, even if there are no errors that can also be telling. Many of the subsystems have some feedback mechanism, so if there is a request made and the feedback doesn't correspond, you'd get an error. So the lack of codes usually shifts the focus upstream to where the request originates.

The stability inoperative must be because ABS/ESP isn't happy. Is there an error there that could give a clue? Is it complainining.about missing CAN messages for example?

 

[DSK]

It’s just started up again but, when I’m off over Xmas I’ll stick the reader in and see what it says.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

If you can access the back electrical connections to the EIS spray some switch cleaner onto the contacts or wiggle (very technical word) the connector to see if you have a dry connection this cured my S210 when it had an intermittent starting problem - worth a try. Years ago they talked about using aircraft spec electrical connectors but I don’t think it happened unfortunately

 

[DSK]

If you can access the back electrical connections to the EIS spray some switch cleaner onto the contacts or wiggle (very technical word) the connector to see if you have a dry connection this cured my S210 when it had an intermittent starting problem - worth a try. Years ago they talked about using aircraft spec electrical connectors but I don’t think it happened unfortunately

Due to commitments and falling behind on business etc I genuinely have no time at present to do diy, no matter how simple it is. Good thinking and certainly worth trying. If I get a chance over Xmas I may try that but I just get concerned that I’d rather not mess anything up myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DSK]

This is just an update for my log;

Whereas previously, before the car went into MB centre for the intermittent, non-start issue, the car failed to start despite repeated attempts for about a week and a half, now, after the last round of work detailed on the invoice, the starting remains intermittent. After several repeated attempts of inserting the key, it’s ‘likely’ i will get lucky and the car will start. The symptoms are as before, all dash lights on but no crank/start when key is fully turned.

I’ve noticed if it’s not going to start, the following error always shows (older photo) when the key is inserted. However if it’s going to start, there will be no error.

I take it out at the moment twice a week for a quick 40-60 mins motorway blast to keep it running and it drives without fault, no warnings etc when running. However, these are only test drives so I will not switch it off until it’s parked up at home again.

I know Steve said it’s just bad luck previously. If it’s an EIS at fault I’m more than happy to pay for a new one, appreciating things can and do fail. However, the more I think about it, something just isn’t adding up. A fully working, reliable car goes in and comes out with this annoying new fault. Is it possible, if the original battery was run low on volts during the original service work (which MB Centre say is highly likely), that a permanent corruption to some electronics could have occurred, such as the EIS unit etc?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[star]

I’d be checking for water ingress under carpets etc. and then can connectors under front seats b

 

[DSK]

I’d be checking for water ingress under carpets etc. and then can connectors under front seats b

Thanks, interestingly I have a thread elsewhere as at the same time the passenger side carpet became wet which, I only noticed due to strange condensation on the windows. They said they cleared the drains but I’m not convinced as the drivers side doesn’t clear easily, yet the exit by the wheel arch is wet as you’d expect when it rains. The passenger drain exist is bone dry. The passenger carpet still gets wet despite me drying it out. Door seals etc all seems fine and it’s not coolant as coolant level is spot on.

What would be under the passenger side carpet? I thought it would have just been seat electrics which happen to be work fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Slartibardfast1]

Thanks, interestingly I have a thread elsewhere as at the same time the passenger side carpet became wet which, I only noticed due to strange condensation on the windows. They said they cleared the drains but I’m not convinced as the drivers side doesn’t clear easily, yet the exit by the wheel arch is wet as you’d expect when it rains. The passenger drain exist is bone dry. The passenger carpet still gets wet despite me drying it out. Door seals etc all seems fine and it’s not coolant as coolant level is spot on.

What would be under the passenger side carpet? I thought it would have just been seat electrics which happen to be work fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When the drains at the windscreen base are blocked, water can collect in battery compartment where there are electronics (ecu?) which can be damaged. That's what I was told by mechanic when I had same issue