W639 Vito Vibration at Idle, rattling, sudden clutch kicking in especially in reverse.

[dunkuk2]

I've just bought a 2014 W639 Vito with the 113cdi OM651 engine. Manual gearbox.

It's in very clean condition and has had a service record, has done 91,000 miles. But not many miles per year recently, 1000 miles in 6 months.

I drove it about 100 miles after buying it and it thought it drove ok. I've not done many miles in it yet.

The issue is that it vibrates a bit when idling, (I noticed before buying it but the overall condition and price was good so did not worry too much). But now I'm worrying it might be serious. It vibrates when idling eg stopped at traffic lights, in neutral. It seems the same when hot or cold. Its not terrible but not right, its a constant low vibration/shake, regular in pattern.
It also sounds rough, like something is clanging a little bit, or shaking / vibrating along with the engine, its not a smooth chug chug of other diesels I have owned. It sounds worse listening underneath the van.
The clutch can be very sudden especially in reverse, its very hard to control when reversing. It's like suddenly lifting your foot off the pedal even though I'm trying to do it smoothly. It actually can go bang when trying to let the clutch out and its very sudden. It seems much better going forward.
The sound does not seem to go away when pushing the clutch in.
Letting the clutch out with the brake on the engine moves a little bit on the mounts but not a massive amount, same in reverse and 1st. It moves more when starting the engine.
It drives well with lots of power and smooth gear changes when rolling. The vibration seems to go a way when revving slightly to say 1500rpm. Its not noticeable at speed.

My fear is its a DMF and clutch that need doing. I did wonder about engine mounts as there is a patch of oily stuff not far from the battery side engine mount but no obvious leaks and the engine doesnt rise up when letting the clutch out. Maybe it's something else though.

I'm going to take it to a garage but just wondered if this sounds familiar to anyone.

Also if it is a DMF / Clutch what is a good price for a replacement?


Thanks

 

[dunkuk2]

I tried 3 garages this morning, the local MB independent is no longer taking customers as too busy, the next nearest independent is not taking bookings for 5 weeks. There's a local non MB place but even they cant look for at least a week. One guy thought it might be the engine mounts but if course had no time to look. I'm not sure if its a DIY job, they look hard to get at.

 

[M80]

Engine mounts aren't oil filled on these. Just rubber. But it could be them anyway.

I would want a leak off test on the injectors, it's an easy enough check for wear. Diagnostics are needed for more interrogation of them.
It's even worth checking that the codes on the injectors are matched in the ECU, to hi lite if they have been replaced and not coded in. If so they might benefit from tickover calibration.

But really there are a few things that may need to be eliminated, and the DMF could well be an issue, but I thought they tended to show vibes at higher revs??

 

[dunkuk2]

Thanks thats very helpful, I'm a bit lost with this. The mounts did look like solid rubber I did think it was odd as I read they were fluid filled. Its not easy to get at them. I might try to get it up on a few inches of plywood or something under the wheels so I can crawl under. So the oil patch underneath was probably just oil.

Yes research on DMF is that it tends to groan/vibrate sound bad when its pulling away and at higher speed. Its quite smooth at higher speed and is fine pulling away.

The super quick clutch is a bit of an odd one, as when they wear they usually slip I thought. It does seem to vary a bit and I have not used it much at all, as I drove it back home on motorways.

I do wonder if I should just drive it a bit (Italian tune up) in case the clutch is glazed and needs a bit of use. But that wouldn't help with the vibration.

I will see if I can climb under the van and look at the mounts and report back.

 

[dunkuk2]

Oh and leak off testing, good idea. I have done that before on a previous MB with the older engine, in a 2003 C Class. I might still have the kit of tubes etc.

Thats something I could do myself.

 

[M80]

Rusty splines might cause some clutch issues. And I suppose if the plate was restricted from landing flat there might be vibes.
Has it been stood? The low mileage might indicate that it has.

Some heavy footwork 'might' help'.

You're not likely to see anything conclusive by looking at the engine mounts. To my mind the 'excessive' rocking of the engine is the surest sign.
Are they original? Might cheapos have been fitted?

Trouble is the clutching at straws bit comes into play too easily.

 

[dunkuk2]

Thanks. I will take it for a drive later and do some stop start driving, it could well have been sat for months.

The engine did not rock much with the footbrake on and pulling in 1st gear, same in reverse, the engine did not jump up excessively.

I'm thinking the injector could be the fault as it makes sense that at idle the amounts of fuel injected are tiny and a mismatch would cause a uneven idle then with more power that slight mis-match would be less noticeable. I'm just guessing though.

Does anyone know what diameter pipe I need for a leak off test, is it 1/8"? The last set I had I bought some little clips as well but that was an older engine. Seems the om651 the tube can just be pushed on to test?

 

[dunkuk2]

Ignore the leak off test question, I took it apart and its fairly obvious. Probably not very wise asking questions about something that is right in front of me, much easier in real life.

 

[dunkuk2]

Just an update, the clutch has improved a lot with driving, I think it had been stood for a while. It's not jerky anymore, its quite a quick action but similar to another Vito I test drove.

When searching parts catalogues the mounts do seem to be fluid filled. Seems to be some conflicting info on this.

I found a local one man garage who's hourly rates are half other places and he is going to have a look for me on Monday so I will report back. I decided to leave the leak off test as getting the little clips holding the factory leak off pipes back in once they have been removed is quite hard, easy at the front but the rear one is hard to get at so hard to tap it in with anything.

 

[dunkuk2]

Ok well I took it to the local mechanic, I'm not sure how through he was but he said its probably the dual mass flywheel.

His opinion was it wasn't that bad and it would gradually get worse over the next couple of years until its very obvious that it needs changing.

He said it was about £1000 to do it, I''ve had a quote from a MB specialist in Horndean for about £1350 for the same job.

To me the noise doesn't sound good but it's hard to know what to do.

My concern is that the vibration might be damaging other parts eg the exhaust. Probably better to do it now and get the benefit of it for the next 2 years vs later as I'll have to spend the money anyway.

I'm going to change the oil to the MB spec 5w40 as I tend to use the higher end what is specified by the maker, I do a fair bit of mileage in hot places so I think it's not a bad idea. I suspect it's got the 5w30 as that seems the universal dealer oil these days. I will see if that makes any difference.