WARNING IF BUYING C230K 2002 or Merc with 271 engine

[memyselfandi]

I have just found that My C230K Coupe has a Faulty Valve Seat and hence low commpression on Cyl 2. Apparently it is a known problem and causes low power output and/or shutdown of cylinder 2 causing the car to run badly. Also the engine management light comes on when it deteects the misfires.

If you have a vehicle get it checked out by an independasnt prior to your warranty running out..

Good Luck

Memyselfandi

 

[television]

We had another one a few weeks ago, found it hard to believe, but thanks for the info.

Malcolm

 

[piestore]

valve seat 271

HI
yes this is a known problem and shows up very quickley from the vehicle being new as a missfire, the fix recommended by MB is a complete new cylinder head and in every case to date this has been covered by warrenty.

 

[memyselfandi]

Can anyone send me any official description of the fault and remedy as my dealership is saying they have never heard of the problem. They say that Merc wont cover it underwarranty. They are wanting me to pay a part of the head replacement. If I just had something official to show them that it is a known fault then I could argue my case.

would it be possible to email or fax me something official. I would pay for the help.

Please PM me.

Kind Regards

Memyselfandi

 

[television]

There is nothing I can send you, but the fault is clearly laid out and the reasons being a faulty head, all of the faulty valve seats are shown.
Since there is no way that you could cause this fault, and the very low milage it has to be down to MB, I will ask Jberks to join the thread, he is better than me at this sort of thing.

Malcolm

 

[jberks]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Malcolm, but I'm not sure what I can add.

Piestore - presumably, there is a document id or factory bulletin reference for this issue? Could you post it? This should allow them to trace the fault, assuming the service manager is so incompetent they haven't already read it and can't find it.
I would in any case, contact MB customer services, confirm that this is a known issue, as advised from the WIS and a dealer employee and ask them to intervene.

Also, when you say this is not covered under warranty - is the car under a warranty at the moment? Any warranty should cover something as serious as this, irrespective of whether this is a known issue or not.

If it isn't covered, I would personally approach it as, either
a) it is a known manufacturing defect and should be repaired at the manufacturers expense.
or
b) It shouldn't have gone at this age and mileage so I'd expect a substantial contribution from MB and a equally substantial discount on the work from the supplying dealer. After all anything else would be adding insult to the injury.

Finally, and clearly I would never recommend such an action, but if it isn't under a warranty, you could, I suppose, buy one of those insurance backed ones that don't require an inspection - warranty direct, AA etc, wait a few weeks and then bang the car into a specialist (not the dealer as they've already seen the fault) and claim ignorance. Clearly I would never do such a thing myself though!

 

[piestore]

271 missfire

HI

checked up to date info the document referring to valve seat problems has been withdrawn, you could ask the dealer to look at there Technical exchange notes as it is well documented there. The original fault was that one or more valve seats would be cut at a slightly incorrect angel causing a misfire usually at start up but it could happen at any time and it was intermittent. I think that this was probably on a very few early 271 engines.

The current info regarding this fault is to inspect the cylinder head for excess carbon deposits on the valves (without removing) the fix is to drive for 10 miles at 4000+ rpm, then to desensitise the sensibility threshold and then to flash the engine management ECU. In English drive at high RPM to try and remove some carbon deposits, then adjust the point at which the engine detects a misfire and switches of the injector and illuminates the engine light, and then to load different software into the engine ECU, this has been quite successful. In extreme cases exhaust valve spring replacement is required

Hope this helps

 

[television]

I have been looking at the photo's, its almost as though the casting is too thin on certain area's of the valve seat, and the seat itself burns away.
I have posted the photo's with info to Memyselfandi.

Malcolm

 

[memyselfandi]

Thanks. Everyone. The garage says they will pay one third of the £3K cost to replace the cyl head and valves and that Merc Milton keynes will pay another third but I have to pay the final third. I dont think that is bad as a first offer but they say if I can prove it is a known problem then they will repair it FOC.

Document numbers for WIS or Technical exchange notes reference numbers may just do the trick.

Big Thanks to everone including a Extra special thanks to Television.

Regards

Mark

 

[jberks]

Sounds like they are weakening. A little more pushing and perhaps the suggestion of bad publicity might get them the rest of the way. It always amuses me when the dealer and MB offer to 'chip in'. Remember, they are chipping in on your prices, not theirs.

Clearly I don't know the real cost for the job but if they were quoting retail at £3k - then that is admitteldy at a guess £1500 for the part and 15 hours labour. If the part costs you £1500, it can't cost MBUK more than £750, surely? Now labour. 15 hours labour for an indie is £675 and they earn a decent living on that. If I were running the workshop, I would park the car in a non ramp bay (cheaper) and have a trainee strip the engine under the supervision of another tech. Most of the work is hours of pulling wires out and undoing bolts so a good training excercise and trainees are cheap. So, the mechanic will cost them around £200 and given they only need a corner of the workshop (so not getting in the way of the profitable servicing work), perhaps another £50 for that. Total real cost £1000 (co-incidence?) So, by my reckoning, whilst sounding good, all their generosity adds up to is that they have generously agreed not to make a £2000 profit on you!
Ok I accept that they have large overheads and they have to make that kind of profit to stay in business - fair enough perhaps for routine servicing, but not in this case.
Keep squeazing!

 

[memyselfandi]

Thanks Again

To all who helped. I found a WIS document detailing the fault. The car has been fixed and I contributed a third of the cost £700. I would like to claim this amount back off the Dealer who sold the car to me and so need a document that says it is a Manufacturing fault and not a wearing problem. Even if this is a letter from another dealers saying that a manufacturing fault on the valve seat on some 271 engines causing this problem. If anyone can help I would be very grateful.

Regards

Memyselfandabigbill

 

[TonyS]

Same valve/head problem - does anyone have documentation?

My C180k is with a MB dealer now - and the same issues are being looked at - can anyone provide a link to documents that would strengthen my case - please...

 

[television]

Hi Tony and welcome,can you put up the first 6 vin numbers please

WDB--- ---

 

[xvvvz]

AF01.30-P-2400A looks like the WIS document for the 271 engine.

 

[TonyS]

C180k misfire

thanks for the help - vin starts wdc203046

Tony